AIBU to say no to 'holiday'

[niceguy2]

My wife & I are in quite a fortunate position insofar as I earn a good income and have a side income from a business which is doing OK. My wife gave up her job in Feb due to stress of the position. A decision I supported as I could see how unhappy she was but at the same time I warned that whilst we'd be OK financially, until she found a new job that we'd have to cut back on the luxuries.

Last month my DD managed to get into Uni and will go in Sept. Due to my income, she won't be eligible for anything except the minimum loans which won't even cover her rent. The rest we'll be expected to fund. I don't have an issue with that. It's something I realised when she was born that I'd probably have to fund one day.

This morning my wife has put pressure on me by saying she wants to go visit her family who live abroad in the summer. I explained that we'd have to see how money is nearer the time but that doesn't seem to be good enough for her. And that it's all a matter of priorities. She's right. And it's not my priority right now to fund a trip abroad for us all whilst she's not working and we are down 1/3 of our monthly income. Obviously she's not happy about that.

Given we've only just come back from a week's break when her family came to visit us that cost us a fair bit, I'm reeling a bit. I'm just worried right now how we will cope with funding DD through Uni if she is still not working.

All would be OK if she got a job but since Feb my wife has managed to apply for absolutely no jobs. Yesterday she managed to show me her CV which looks great, as it should for 2.5 months work. If she was applying for jobs then I could maybe see that in time she'd get a job and we'd be OK again.

I don't even mind what job it is or how much it pays. My income pays for our usual living expenses and my side income could fund DD through Uni if my wife works. But it can't do that AND go on holidays. Of course she doesn't see it as a holiday but frankly that's exactly what it is.

So AIBU?

I like how, for some people, the solution is just "save some money then"

Not everyone can afford to save, especially a family that previously had two full-time workers, and presumably budgeted (bills, mortgage/rent, phone contracts, etc.) accordingly. Losing a third of your income is HUGE. Most people can't manage such a loss without making some serious adjustments.

OP's wife can't expect to quit her job and carry on as before, it's just a fact of life. You need money if you want to go on holiday. If you can't afford said holiday, then you need to find a way to make money - eBay, babysitting, dog-walking or just getting a job.

She's been off sick since February. As a grown adult, with no small children to look after, you can't expect to walk out of a job and never go into another one UNLESS the family income can support that. OP is obviously struggling to afford anything above the necessities, so if a holiday is so important to her, she needs to find a way to afford it.

And yes, I sympathise with her that she's been stressed, it's tough, but I think in some respects, the longer you leave it, the harder it is to get back into work - not just in terms of gaps in your CV, but in terms of self-confidence and worry/anxiety.

Presumably the job was causing the stress. She's been out of work for at least two months - she still has bills and responsibilities. She can't expect to rely on her husband forever, surely? It's not the same as being physically unable to work - stress can be managed - and OP needs to try and get a new job if possible - to help her support her family.

Stress can be bad enough that it is just as bad as a being physically unable to work. It can cause actual physical, bad, symptoms. Presumably it must have been extreme to leave her job without any other plan?

YANBU. A drop in income will necessitate a change in lifestyle choices. That may mean cutting back on food spends, other luxuries like Sky or gym membership or not doing the same sort of holidays as usual. Maybe sit down with your wife and discuss which of these are feasible. It may be that it is possible for her to go away, if other things are ditched. Is she on board with that? Or itemise your incoming and outgoings, both at present and estimated for when your DD is at uni. That might be an effective way of demonstrating there isn't a lot of spare cash around?

If your wife had such a tough time at work, I don't think it's too unreasonable for her to not have got into job seeking yet. But she does need to modify her expectations a bit to reflect that.

I think in some respects, the longer you leave it, the harder it is to get back into work - not just in terms of gaps in your CV, but in terms of self-confidence and worry/anxiety.

I definitely agree with that. Sounds like she is struggling.

I don't get it. There's less money coming in so there will be less money available to spend. When you have to budget more carefully, luxuries such as holidays are the first things to go. It's not difficult. I'm really confised that this isn't obvious to... well, to everyone really.
(And yes, the rules around JSA claims do mean people are trapped in awful jobs. No, leeway on the sanction period for resigning or getting sacked is not given because the person didn't enjoy their job. The job centre is not a nice place staffed by kind people who want to make your life happier and better.)

Not everyone can afford to save, especially a family that previously had two full-time workers, and presumably budgeted (bills, mortgage/rent, phone contracts, etc.) accordingly. Losing a third of your income is HUGE. Most people can't manage such a loss without making some serious adjustments.

Yes, but a lot of people can make savings. Because the OP does not discuss any specifics, as readers we just don't know how many savings can be made.

Small savings do actuall really add up and it surprises people. How many financial review programmes, food budgeting programmes, shopping habit programmes have there being on TV? How many budgeting threads on here? To make savings does involve being proactive about budgeting thought not just bemoaning a loss.

We know the OP is in a situation where there will be no financial assistance for his daughters uni costs, so this, at least, suggests there are some funds to play with.

Well the information provided seems at odds to me.

On the one hand they have one full time income with a good salary and a business that brings in enough to cover dd uni, and that income is so high dd gets the lowest possible loans.

But on the other hand a months income only lasts two and a half weeks of outgoings.

I think the outgoings need to be looked at. And what is happening to the income from the business currently, dd is not an uni yet.

If you don't have the money for something then you just don't. So its not unreasonable not to buy it. But it sounds to me as if all the finances need looking at more closely and the budget should include some funds for the wife to visit her family. That is a justifiable cost if you live away from family I think. Not quite the same as budgeting for a holiday.

Oh true, I'm not saying it's impossible to make savings, but I think people budget their outgoings according to income.

If you have a joint incoming of say, 60k a year, and lose a third of that (20k) that's a big dent in your annual spendings. You will still have a mortgage/rent to buy (based on previous income), contracts you're tied into (SKY, internet, phones - and it may be cheaper to keep paying than to pay out of a contract), things like car costs, insurance (generally necessary for most people to work) etc etc.

I think it's easy to save when your income is the same as always, but a big drop in income without a big drop in expenditure is always going to be a struggle. When people lose jobs, things like holidays, meals out and takeaways are the first things to go. It might be nice for OP's wife to see her family, but she shouldn't go if it impacts negatively on everyone else.

YANBU.

Were the roles reversed I'm sure that that awful word "cocklodger" would have been mentioned on this thread by now. Funny that its female equivalent (I can think of one translation but won't repeat it - they're all hideous as concepts) hasn't made an appearance yet.

You cannot magic the money from elsewhere. Your wife cannot make no contribution and also expect her financial priorities to be met. A bit different if she were to be making an effort to find work, but it appears that her decision not to seek work appears to have been made without consulting you.

outtogetyou

"On the one hand they have one full time income with a good salary and a business that brings in enough to cover dd uni, and that income is so high dd gets the lowest possible loans. "

Due to the changes made, basically unless your parents are completely unable to support you (ie unemployed) and you have specific needs EVERYONE would fall in to this category now. It doesn't mean you are loaded. I don't have a link to the rules (and can't bloody find one) but basically, this is a red herring.

On the one hand they have one full time income with a good salary and a business that brings in enough to cover dd uni, and that income is so high dd gets the lowest possible loans. But on the other hand a months income only lasts two and a half weeks of outgoings.

I had assumed that the op is paid at irregular intervals; when counted up over a year it might be a large number but that doesn't mean he has regular access to a 1/12th of it every month. Is this the case op?

The job centre is not a nice place staffed by kind people who want to make your life happier and better.

Well that's depressing alltouchedout. I've not had much contact with them myself but the people I met when I did seemed kind enough.

Hermione it depends on priorities. Some people may not miss a takeaway, if there is someone around who can spend time cooking. Cars can be sold and cheaper ones bought. There are much cheaper TV deals than Sky but you need to be aware of them so you are ready to back out of an existing deal when the time comes. Often just threatening to cancel means the existing provider will for a better deal. Meals out can be done more cheaply if you look out for deals and consider going to cheaper restaurants. A lot of these changes can save hundreds, if not thousands over a year or two.

What the OP's wife has as an advantage, now, is the time to research the best deals.

I think in this case the daugher going to Uni is more important.Its her education.

And we dont know if the op has made drastic cuts to his own spending.You cant have it both ways.You quit your job of course things change.You have to live your life within means.

Were the roles reversed I'm sure that that awful word "cocklodger" would have been mentioned on this thread by now. Funny that its female equivalent (I can think of one translation but won't repeat it - they're all hideous as concepts) hasn't made an appearance yet

Of course it wouldn't! If your husband of many years stopped working because of stress would he become a "cocklodger" just a few weeks after last contributing a full time wage?
What a stupid comment.

YY, you don't have to be earning a huge amount in order to get the lowest possible loans. Most people don't qualify for much additional help - the government expect parents to subsidise, or for your students to get a job alongside their studies.

YANBU

A third of your income is a massive drop in the family finances and as such, savings will have to be made. Holidays - esp. foreign ones - are usually the first to go and while it would be nice for her to see her parents she's just had a break with them. By all means look at the finances again and see if you can work out a way to come up with a few hundred for her to go abroad, but it's not a priority compared to education.

Re the job situation - the sooner she gets back to work the better for the sake of her mental health and self confidence. A pp suggested temp work as a route back in which is a very sensible idea imo.

Op, I'd do a spreadsheet and put her in charge of keeping it updated. When she identifies a gap between income and expenditure, that's a cue for you to discuss what 'gives'. Do you re-prioritse or does she start applying for jobs, for example? I too would prioritise my child's education over a holiday and I can't understand why your wife is unable to see this perspective. It does suggest she's very blind to the realities of financial management. In those circumstances I'd resolve it by giving her the responsibility and stating that you're not content with taking a disproportionate responsibility for managing the family budget.

Thanks all. Hermoine has hit the nail on the head really. We've got various financial commitments that can't easily be scaled back and/or agreed that we would not. So for example we've got a car loan for the second car we needed when she went to work. We could get rid of the car but if she's going to get another job soon that would be folly. Plus May/June we have a lot of family birthdays which of course involves presents.

Ditto with other stuff like phones for us & the kids, TV, Amazon prime etc. All aren't issues in the past as we both worked. We can cut back on all those when the contracts come up for renewal.

We've since had a chat and the compromise at the moment is that she can book tickets for her and her son. The rest of us will follow if finances allow nearer the time. Yes we may end up paying more in flights but that to me is a safer bet.

I honestly don't think I am controlling as in I am single handedly setting our priorities and saying no for the sake of it. If we hadn't had our income slashed by a third, we'd have just booked it and it would have been a non-issue. We share all our money from the day she moved in. Joint bank account, every outgoing is in a shared spreadsheet.

Again, education is something important to both of us so the only thing we need to agree upon is how much we need to spend per month. Right now we don't know as it's unchartered waters for all of us and until DD's accommodation is assigned we don't even know the final cost. All I know is her loan doesn't even cover the cheapest accommodation. But there's no dispute over whether or not "our" money should be used.

I'm not bothered too much about her not having found a job and not even THAT fussed about not looking. As long as this is reflected in the fact we can't spend like we used to. It's not like we're broke. We're far from it. We can manage. It's just the big spends I'm trying to say we can't automatically afford like in the past.

I think everything you just said is completely reasonable OP.
And the fact your wife will go with her son suggests she knows it

That sounds like a good compromise, OP. I hope it works out.

The situation with job centres is beyond depressing right now, contessa. The entire benefits system has become nightmarish. It's utterly appalling.

Best of luck niceguy2 - sounds like you have a good way forward.

Hope you get a holiday too!

You seem entirely reasonable to me. I'd echo the things PP have said about your wife seeking help from her GP, because it's definitely harder to get back into work the longer she leaves it. The suggestion about temping is a good one if it's possible in her line of work. I hope things work out and you all get a holiday!

Your wife sounds like a fanny lodger. If a man did this, everyone would be calling him a cocklodger and saying LTB, so how is this any better? She has no young children to look after at home, and has just decided to pack in her job and expect to live off you. It is clear from what you said that there wasn't an agreement that she would be a lazyarse housewife forever, she has just decided this by herself.
Tell her in no uncertain terms to get a job of some sort. If you don't do this, she will scrounge off you for years. Then, if anything goes wrong, you'll be stuck paying alimony. Don't scrimp and save to give her luxuries - if she wants them, she'll have to get off her backside.