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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To expect Mum to pay up after 4YO child scratched every panel on our car

569 replies

LupoLoopy · 07/05/2016 15:42

Context: My wife works at a nursery school as an assistant.. Her car was parked in the staff car park, which the kids egress though when they leave, under parental supervision.

During lunch time pick-up, one of the departing 4 year old's took a rock and scratched every panel and light fixture on her car, all whilst his Mum was standing within 6M of the car, chatting to a friend.

The incident was captured on CCTV.

The cost of a proper repair is so close to the value of the car, I fear it being written off, which is something we could afford but would hurt us a lot financially.

Although the damage is only cosmetic, the car was pristine before the incident (I'm a fussy sod who takes good care of his stuff) and I don't see why we should tolerate driving a 'shed' around 'for the children'.

We're trying to seek restitution from the School's insurance (if it will cover it) but to cover our butts, we've reported the incident to the police (so and official record exists) and reported it to our insurer.

If we have to use our car insurance AND we're fortunate enough to not have the car written off, it's going to tank my partners insurance premiums.

Frankly, I want to encourage the police to be fully involved and start proceedings immediately for civil action via the small claims court. I just dont think I can have confidence that Mum is going to be wired in the same way I am - i.e. it's her liability and don't see why we should be financially crippled by her parental inattention.

AIBU?

OP posts:
MrsMainwaring · 07/05/2016 19:19

GoblinLittleOwl don't insult the OP
They are saying that they may have to factor in damages
I'm in the same position
It's horrible so back off

plantsitter · 07/05/2016 19:19

I think if you are properly insured and this is dealt with in a sensible way then it needn't cost you any money and therefore no, it isn't relevant to your financial planning.

I suppose your method of weighing everything up financially down to the last bump in the car park is alien to me. I'm not criticising you for it. I just hope your wife can put an exact price on her 'labour of love' as easily as you do... I must say it sounds like you'd rather she gave it up and this incident is giving you an excuse to persuade her. But maybe I'm wrong. I hope I am.

P1nkP0ppy · 07/05/2016 19:30

I'd be doing exactly the same op if it was my car.
Some of these responses are baffling!

P1nkP0ppy · 07/05/2016 19:32

Well said Lemonade!

BigChocFrenzy · 07/05/2016 19:34

It's obviously not criminal damage, but afaik the parents are responsible in civil law for the costs of any damage caused by their children, at least if it was avoidable - which this certainly was.

I wouldn't shrug off 1000s I am owed - I have in the past sued for a civil debt, which meant that the person payed me 200 per month for 3 years = the original debt plus my legal costs plus interest.
I received it in full, not that much bother.

It is perfectly reasonable for the OP and his DW to discuss each of their jobs wrt income / cost / risk and decide if they need to change things.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/05/2016 19:41

The person who owed me didn't have insurance, but that was his decision.
I felt no guilt whatsoever about making him pay and I wouldn't feel guilt about making a parent pay in the circumstances described - because I'm not prepared to, in effect, donate 1000s to some random parent for their DC.

plantsitter · 07/05/2016 19:51

That is what your insurance is for though. Not suggesting anyone should shrug off 1000s of £ of damage.

MunchCrunch01 · 07/05/2016 20:08

YANBU, it's the parent's responsibility and they have to find a way to pay, however they need to do that, I don't think I'd be too interested in how they cough up. I hope they are mortified - wtf were they doing that was so important they left the child unattended in a car park? The mind absolutely boggles.

BoneyBackJefferson · 07/05/2016 20:09

MsJamieFraser
"BonnieBackJefferson I do love when people only see part of a post... did you not see the "seemingly few seconds..."

That is funny from someone that can't get the posters name correct.

eddielizzard · 07/05/2016 20:14

i think you're being very reasonable and pragmatic. i'd be fucking spitting if it were my car.

but.

you haven't had the meeting yet. she may come in on monday and say 'oh so sorry, absolutely my fault and i accept all responsibility.'

let's hope that's the case eh?

BigChocFrenzy · 07/05/2016 20:14

iirc the OP said this would raise their premiums, plus there is the excess.
It would just mean the insurance company recovering the money from the parents, instead of the OP doing so.

When I worked in Germany, a small child badly scratched my car. His parents' house / liability insuramce paid in full and they accepted without discussion that it was their financial responsibility.
My insurance would only have become involved if I hadn't known who had done the damage.

1hamwich4 · 07/05/2016 20:16

Fwiw you seem sound as a pound to me, OP. I hope you get it sorted amicably to your satisfaction.

I drive a car that looks like a bag of spanners, don't really care if it looks a bit tatty as long as it works, but I totally get that some people like their shiny things. If my kid wrecked one, even if I was watching them like a hawk, I'd still expect to have to cough up.

But I expect that Hopeless Mum won't see it that way.

lljkk · 07/05/2016 20:17

Is the mother deaf? Is the nursery on a noisy busy road? I don't understand how Mom didn't hear the child smash out 4 light fittings never mind inflict deep & extensive scratching all over a metal car. Confused A 4yo would have to put a lot of wellie into smashing out light fittings.

Civil law might be way to go.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/05/2016 20:18

Insurance is for when there is no civil liability for the damage by whoever caused it, or their guardians.
Or when the person who did it is unknown.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/05/2016 20:20

I'd require the parents to pay, because there is a limit on the number of claims my insurance would accept without increasing premiums

MsJamieFraser · 07/05/2016 20:21
Hmm

Yes I mistook Bonnie from Boney... easily done!.

My point still stands however!

SoupDragon · 07/05/2016 20:23

A 4yo would have to put a lot of wellie into smashing out light fittings.

They scratched, not smashed, them didn't they?

MsJamieFraser · 07/05/2016 20:24

yes Soup, smashed has not been mentioned, only scratched.

Pigeonpost · 07/05/2016 20:25

but the underlying message here appears to be that his wife must give up her job and find something which brings in more money, as a punishment for putting his precious car in a situation where it was damaged. Not a nice man.

And here, in a nutshell, is all that is wrong with certain elements of MN. FFS.

lljkk · 07/05/2016 20:30

okay my mistake.

I understand the car is devalued if whole panels are deeply scratched... but how much do scratched lights matter?

There seem to be a lot of pages & youtube videos about ways to cheaply repair scratched car lights (just saying).

Hissy · 07/05/2016 20:30

There is no underlying message, unless you're spectacularly thick and looking for a problem that isn't there.

Original poster
LupoLoopy · 07/05/2016 20:39

@Solvendie, @Plantsitter -

I take your view point on board. So I need to be careful that my wife doesn't feel I'm forcing her out of her job. I wouldnt want her to feel like that, but... please hear me out.

Just to be clear, I called it 'a labour of love' (so that's all you had to go on, in fairness). That's how I defined it, as she must do it for the love of the kids because the numbers dont really stack up, event with the recent accident ignored.

She's the first to moan about how the commute is totally wiping her out, telling me how she does a shot of espresso to make the drive home (FTR she hates coffee), how she struggles with dosh at the end of the month and feels awful that I have to pay 'all the bills' - her (recent) words, not mine.

This is also her first 'proper job' and she'd be the first to admit she's change adverse (to the point of being change terrified), hence she hasn't (until recently) even dared look at whats available locally.

If she loves the nature of the work, hates the commute and wants us to be better off for the same effort, does it make me a total bastard for pushing her a little to consider her options in terms of changing venues? To discuss all the factors so she doesn't make a decision based on inertia or fear of change?

I appreciate I don't want her making a change on the fear of my reaction/viewpoint either.

Sure, I feel like I'm subsidizing her commute somewhat and whatever way you dress it up, I am a bit. But I dont resent it. I've probably expressed my thoughts there badly/crassly as I'm generally wound up over concern with this damage. Sorry about that.

I've accepted the commute and it's financial ramifications for over a year and will continue to do so as long as she's happy and it's viable for me to fully support it.

I'm just not convinced she's as happy as she could be, given a change. Also I fear how viable it is in the very long term - self employment can reduce your tolerance for financial shocks a lot, hence it coming to mind when talking planning.

There you go. Whether I'm judged as a total arse now, with my cards on the table re: where I'm coming from there, so be it.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 07/05/2016 20:42

What is fine as a DIY repair to an old banger may be unacceptable for a car worth several thousand.
The resale / exchange value of a decent (not extravagant) car goes down the toilet if any damage is not repaired to a professional standard. Doesn't matter if that is to panels, lights, mirrors, glass, whatever.

specialsubject · 07/05/2016 20:50

indeed, but a write-off is also worth a fraction of bugger all. This car will probably be a cat C due to the size of the repair bill, and that is the end of its resale value. As most people don't understand the insurance categories, it will be very hard to sell.

the insurance repair industry gets new panels, puts all the layers of paints on them and it takes ages. Now that's all good but for cosmetic bits it is unnecessary. And panels are just cosmetic. Getting undamaged panels from a scrapped car is much quicker and therefore much cheaper. Obviously (a word I type often here...) I wouldn't recommend this for functional bits.

sadly the OP is stuffed either way. Go through insurance; car written off, no resale value, premiums go up. Try to get it done without and the mini-vandal's mummy won't pay.

I also wouldn't bother although I would be cross.

Original poster
LupoLoopy · 07/05/2016 20:51

Back OT - I'll definitely look at what they bodyshop(s) can do in terms of buffing the light fixtures. Those scratches are pretty light, the perspex casing obfuscates them a bit and I only saw them as the kid drew kind of a linear route around the car.

To be honest, if it was a difference between write off (and attendant hassle) and not, I'd take that work on myself.

It may not be coming across, but I'm fearful of Mum walking away from all responsibility, which strikes me as a bit unjust. I know she might be reasonable, but it's Shroedinger's Parent - she might be totally unreasonable. I want to make sure we're protected.

My only objectives:

  1. I want the car repaired and it's value maintained at minimum cost to all parties involved. However, I dont want to take a massive hit to 'minimize gross cost' - i.e. just leave the damage unrepaired and get crucified when we try and sell it on.

  2. I'd like Mum to understand that DC needs supervision in the car park and next time he could do more damage or get hurt himself

I'm NOT looking to screw her to the wall, as I stated a while back. If she quite literally cannot afford to pay it, then we'll have to take the hit. There's no getting blood out of a stone and I dont want £10 guilt money coming in for the next 600 weeks. I'd rather be angry for a week then be able to move on.

BUT if she can afford to pay it, or has insurance which would cover it, I dont see why we should.

OP posts: