To expect Mum to pay up after 4YO child scratched every panel on our car

[LupoLoopy]

Context: My wife works at a nursery school as an assistant.. Her car was parked in the staff car park, which the kids egress though when they leave, under parental supervision.

During lunch time pick-up, one of the departing 4 year old's took a rock and scratched every panel and light fixture on her car, all whilst his Mum was standing within 6M of the car, chatting to a friend.

The incident was captured on CCTV.

The cost of a proper repair is so close to the value of the car, I fear it being written off, which is something we could afford but would hurt us a lot financially.

Although the damage is only cosmetic, the car was pristine before the incident (I'm a fussy sod who takes good care of his stuff) and I don't see why we should tolerate driving a 'shed' around 'for the children'.

We're trying to seek restitution from the School's insurance (if it will cover it) but to cover our butts, we've reported the incident to the police (so and official record exists) and reported it to our insurer.

If we have to use our car insurance AND we're fortunate enough to not have the car written off, it's going to tank my partners insurance premiums.

Frankly, I want to encourage the police to be fully involved and start proceedings immediately for civil action via the small claims court. I just dont think I can have confidence that Mum is going to be wired in the same way I am - i.e. it's her liability and don't see why we should be financially crippled by her parental inattention.

AIBU?

stablebutdeluded

It's a tricky one. Leaving legalities of the situation to the experts, whatever happens, the outcome will be a relief for the party that 'wins' and a stab in the gut for the other. Best of luck OP. Let's us know how the meeting goes.

To me , it seems

Legally..... YABU

And

Morally..... yANBU

And it's as simple as that.

Three incidents in four years in a tight car park used daily all year by parents and small children and presumably there are buggies and big embellished handbags passing through most days really isn't a lot. I have suffered many a ding in supermarket car parks. No huge scratches but a lot of little indentations, and no notes left so no way to make anyone pay.

If it's a tight car park, were the incidents all child-related or dings to neighbouring cars when drivers opened their doors?

YANBU - if that was my daughter I would have been bloody mortified (mind you I don't take my eyes off her on a car park) but the first thing I would have done is offered to have it repaired, I am sure if they have home insurance your insurance can actually stake a claim against that somehow, but no make her pay!

OP, I sympathise. I can well believe the cost of repairing the damage (I think repair costs are unreasonably high, but that's not your fault and is a whole other thread! I'm certainly not suggesting you're exaggerating).

However, I'd be amazed if the police do anything other than record this. The legal definition of criminal damage requires intent or recklessness, and a four-year-old is not going to be considered reckless in the eyes of the law. The police will undoubtedly tell you to consider a civil claim if you are seeking recompense, and not even speak to the mother or the nursery. They are too overstretched to do otherwise. I think you should be braced to expect that.

I cannot see that the police will be interested as this was done in a private car park and not on the public highway.

The child is too young to be held personally/criminally responsible. However, if you can see on the CCTV that the parent saw what the child was doing, and failed to act, then you may be able to hold the parent responsible for her child's actions.
Do you have protected or guaranteed no claims discount? If so you might be better making a claim. Your premium may increase but your years of ncd would not be reduced.
If you buy the car back it will be a Category C or D (repairable and drivable but uneconomical to repair) so you need to check with your insurers that they will insured this category of vehicle.

OP do you have Motor Legal Expenses cover on your motor insurance policy? It may be worth checking this. It gives access to a 24hour claims helpline where you can get legal advice (usually without paying an excess or any solicitor's fees) on your case. This is only the case if the incident/accident is not your fault.

Good luck which ever way it goes. Not a nice thing to be in conflict with anyone so hope it all goes well.

Jesus I can't believe the crap the OP has had spouted at him here. Why the hell should he and his DW just suck up the fact that someone else's kid has damaged their car? And I don't care if the kid was only 4/ the mother can't afford it/ the OP is too precious/ the car is old/ whatever.

And all that stuff attacking him for his so-called attitude to his wife? No wonder we get described as a nest of vipers at times. Irrelevant at best, deliberately provocative at worst.

OP I hope you get some progress towards a reasonable outcome today. Come back and let us know what it happening if you get time....

OP, having RTFT I don't think you are being U and wish you luck with the meeting and quotes this morning. You come across very assertive and this is good considering your DW isn't. One thing I would say is give the mum time to speak first at the meeting, if she's mortified, as I would be, then she may have already looked into house insurance etc and should apologise no matter what her intentions are after that. I agree with other posters she may not have enough to pay a lump sum up front. whilst you are entirely right you should not be at a disadvantage financially through no fault if your own, be it forking out or having higher insurance premiums, if you are very assertive and the Mum thinks you are being aggressive or making it hard for her to do the right thing it may become very difficult at work for your DW rather than abit awkward for a while.

I would pay up if I were the Mum. In fact, when 4 months pregnant, after loosing my first and a bit overly worried about things, I managed to scratch a colleagues car. It was a posh new car (with shit easy to scratch paint) but mine didn't even have a mark! I could have just kept quiet but I didn't, I found out whose car it was and said I'd pay for the repair. The colleague in question knew my situation and earns about four times what I do but I still did not think he should pay for it. Annoyingly, someone a bit more car savvy could have got it done more cheaply but I still paid up. What left a bitter taste in my mouth was that he didn't even thank me for my honesty and offer to pay, he just got it done and took the money. I was quick to get it sorted, honest, friendly and did the right thing. Now that doesn't mean I was a hero and should be celebrated but some basic manners would have been appreciated.

Catscats - I did the same as you once. I was trying to squeeze into my designated parking space - at an angle off a road - when I caught the bumper of the next car who was parked right up to the dividing line and should not even have been parked there. I went to find him, apologized, and said I would pay for the damage but would like a quote as I might need to claim on the insurance. (His car, btw, was about 15 years old and already damaged on every panel.) He called two weeks later, said he had got the repair done and I owed him £330! Thankfully I had a male friend with me who phoned him back and asked for the bill from the garage - and, guess what? I never heard another word from him.

OP - Good luck with the meeting.

Insurers dont seem to be in anyone's corner but their own. I had a friend who's new car was written off by a numpty lorry driver who tried to squeeze under a low bridge and the huge great digger he was carrying on the flat bed fell off and crushed my friends car. No parking restrictions or anything, she was parked in a marked bay etc and she still lost out for months as she had to keep paying the loan purchase for the car while hiring another one to get her to work. Insurers were hopeless and she was badly out of pocket. A second one was a car being damaged on a ferry by an old knackered car with a dodgy hand brake, ferry took no liability, the guy who rolled backward said he hadn't moved, it was them who drove into him (the engine wasn't even turned on) and insurers wanted to take the easy way out and admit liability and huge increase in premiums.

Op yanbu I am sick of having cars damaged by the deliberate or careless acts of others. Why would anyone think it's ok just because it's a car?

I agree that MyInLaws has been irritating in the extreme on this thread and I'm beyond impressed that OP has kept his cool when faced with such a relentless barrage of posts from her.

A PP's comment about 'parent power' had quite sinister implications and made me shudder. And highlights that ultimately it's the OP's DW - who has done nothing wrong - yet may suffer consequences whatever the outcome.

Hi All!

Decided that I'd update sporadically with meaningful content rather than run a 'Ask Me Anything' session, mostly to preserve my sanity. Also to minimize risks a little. As @Goingthedistance highlighted really - I'm sure you understand.

Fortunately neither I nor DW are fussed about Parent Power. She feels she's got the support of the her colleagues in that she hasn't done anything wrong. And let's be frank : She hasn't. Even if she seeks the minimize our losses through mediation - She still hasn't

I'm the one looking into our options, should it go Pete-Tong. We're all hoping it wont, but I'm a negative sod who wants to get our bases covered.

Car being independently assessed this afternoon, will update on prices as I'm happy to put that in the public domain so we can close off that debate. The assessor uses the same system as the insurance firms, so I'm happy it's reputable.

Meeting likely to happen this week (unless Mum changes her mind). Wife is not going and I thank @Myinlaws for that advice - very helpful. I do NOT think I will post any details of Mum's response, should we hear it, as that's unfair to her and would likely weaken our position anyway.

The advice on the Legal Hotline stuff was TOP DRAWER! Got advice that there is a case we could raise, given the full circumstances (which I'm not going to disclose on here, with the implied threats floating around). Up to a judge to ultimately call it, of course, but we're not being totally bonkers. I gave the chap the information in as negative way as possible (i.e. with the facts as I understand them biased against me) and he felt that I wouldnt be wasting my time.

As if I need to restate this, I'd only even consider p1ssing about like this if the car is written off, if we claim. Life is FAR too short to chase parents over an excess we budgeted to pay should the 'worst happen'. However, a written off car is actually beyond what I'd ever envisioned as 'worst' for such an innocuous act (parking your car at work)

Sounds like you are on top of it OP. Good that DW's colleagues are in the know should there be any hostility from parents.
But really YABVVU to limit ask me anything...

Great update and I'm happy it sounds more positive.

Don't blame you about the updates, I would not have been able to withstand some of the inane twattery on this thread if aimed at me op.

YANBU but I don't think there is anything the police will be able to help with other than log a report, the child is under the age of criminal responsibility - you'll have to rely on the parents being responsible enough to either cover your costs themselves or take it the civil route through court. 🙁

My brother accidentally fell off his bike and scratched someone's car. My Dad had to pay the repair bill.

Holy crap OP you've been given a bit of a tough time here (and quite unnecessarily, some people do like to get personal ). I would feel the same as you over the car, I very much hope you get it all resolved well.

TRy buffing the scratches out?

Could you ask her to pay the excess maybe plus a sum that would protect your no claims and compensate for any hike in insurance? Whenever I've claimed my insurance hasn't gone up so might be worth checking that and maybe pursue that rather than a cost you won't technically have to bear if you use your insurance?

Ignore me - I've reported my post I hadn't realised the thread went on for so long