To ask how you deal with stranger danger?

[Coffeecreamers]

I have always told my kids not to go off with strangers and thought he would be reasonably streetwise. However, a conversation with my 8 yr old DS tonight has really made me think. I have been reading about little Keith Bennett and I asked him if he would go off with a stranger and he said no. I then asked him what he would do if he was playing in the front garden and a car pulled up - the person in the car said he had a new toy for him. I asked DS what he would do and he said he would say thank you very much. I asked him if he would run to the car and he said of course he would. I asked him what he would do if he was estranged from us in the park and someone asked him if he would look for their lost puppy and he said of course he would help. I have told him that no, he does not do that. He asked why and I told him that there are not many but some people that like to hurt children. He was asking what had happened to the children that had been hurt and I couldn't bear to tell him. What do you say to your kids?

I try to be age appropriate honest with my kids but it is hard. A stranger could hurt you because it was fun for them, just like school bullies, except if they were an adult they would be stronger than you.

A dangerous stranger could be an or young person, male or female. If they want to talk to you when your little they just can't they would come and talk to mum if they needed help or something. If they say they need help, injured puppy, wife having baby, WHY would they ask a child for help!

Whatever they are offering, sweets, puppy etc etc, you don't need it. Don;t engaged with them and report to a safe adult. Parent, whoever is looking after you, teacher etc.

It's sad but if a person just wants to say 'hello' or what e lovely say they would say it to the adult, if anyone singles out a child to speak to< I would be suspicious. What a sad world but it's true.

And, yes boundaries for all people, adults, other children, male or female. No one needs to touch a child inappropriately or take of clothes etc etc, whether they are known to you or a stranger, outside of immediate parental care no one needs to do intimate things for you (taking to toilet etc) unless parent has put them in charge and even then child has body autonomy.

A dangerous stranger could be an old or young person....

I use tricky people and the DC and I often talk about it, role play, listening to oneself if someone is being a bit odd. They also know if someone says don't tell mummy then that's a tricky person.

It is difficult though with ex dh, who believes that elders, especially friends and family must be respected and you do what they say regardless of yourself. This includes letting revolting uncle kiss you hello when he creeps you out and getting told off for not wanting to kiss him back. Unfortunately ex dh included me in that much to revolting uncles delight:(

this is interesting, thanks.

Stranger danger is an odd concept. Children are far more likely to be hurt by someone they know, and far more likely to be killed by a nice well-meaning motorist who sincerely believes there's no real difference between 30mph and 35mph. ().
I think, perhaps, that it's stuck as an idea because it's comforting. It divides the world into Bad People Out There and Safe People Who We Know. Things are more complicated and nowhere is completely safe. On the other hand, as Luna just said most people are nice and will want to help a lost and scared child.

I can't seem to get it through to ds2 either.
I have Been watching the joey salads one in the USA where he uses a cute white dog - ds2 adores dogs and I fear he would go.

joeysalad

Vastly more important to teach children about boundaries with people they know.
^ This!

Thanks v much little lion - very helpful

Really useful thread OP - thanks.

Great to hear lots of people emphasising the greater risks from people kids know... I hear so much from mum's re stranger danger but not about this.

Lots of food for thought and resources to chat through again with DCs.

I think it is important to make kids aware of "stranger danger" but my parents took it to the extreme- to the extent i'm very anxious around strangers even now i'm an adult. Honestly, someone just has to look in my direction and it puts me on edge- when i'm on my own I always have to talk on the phone. Not because I think it will "protect" me but because the way I see it if someone hears me getting mugged somebody I know will be able to come and help me much faster. Honestly, I don't think i'd let a stranger come near me if I could help it if I was lying in a pool of blood on the side of the street.

I can be anxious in someways in general- but I do think it's my parents overprotective attitude (I mean even supermarket workers who said hello to me were treated as pedophiles) that means i'm anxious and tend not to go to places alone

And let's not forget- if something bad is going to happen, there is more chance of it happening with someone you know then you don't. Scary really.

I often test the DCs on this. Been through the whole 'what if they offer you X/tell you mummy asked them to get ypu/call you by name' etc etc. So far they say run away every time. I've said they can do whatever they need to do to get them off them, they both go to karate.

When we were on holiday last year, DD got lost while we were in the arcade. She was supposed to be with DH and he wasn't paying close attention and she wandered. We were running around like mad trying to find her. Eventually I saw her, being led away holding someone's hand. First reaction was run to her panicking, thankfully it turned out to be the lady on a selling cart that served me the day before. DD remembered being there with me and went over to tell her she was lost (lady was a member of staff to the holiday place). She was 4, I was so thankful she had sense! Especially as she thinks if she knows someone's name then they aren't a stranger anymore and she is far too friendly and affectionate to people we just don't know, neighbour, cleaner in school etc. I've had to stop her hugging anyone who isn't family or her teacher as it was getting out of hand.

Some good tips on here though. I have drummed in that it's not always people we don't know at all but just because we know someone's name (neighbour) doesn't mean they aren't still a stranger to us.

This is a helpful thread in some ways. I think I am a bit blasé about this sort of thing though as I have focused more on the fact that most paedos groom kids. I have just told my children that no self respecting adult will ever ask a child to lie / keep a secret and if they ever feel that someone has asked them to do it they have to tell us.

I also didn't realise that I had been doing the pants rule without knowing it.

It's a really difficult situation, of course you MUST teach stranger danger but most children know their abusers, so as someone said up-thread, teaching children about boundaries with people that they know is essential. I can recommend a book called

A Very Touching Book by Jan Lindman When teaching e-safety, Stranger Danger is key, as you need to teach the children that anyone that they speak to online, unless they know them in real life, is a stranger! It's so difficult.

I think it is really difficult BeYourself - giving you a for instance, a while ago I saw a young child sitting outside a shop (5 or 6) by himself, with his head in his hands looking miserable. I couldn't see an adult around so instinctively I asked him where his mother was and was he lost. He sat there in complete silence, not answering. Clearly, his mother had told him not to talk to strangers.

For me this is a normal, community spirited reaction. I am not a paedo and have no interest really in other people's children. His mother came out of the shop and gave me the worst stare of my life. I imagine most people in my situation, would have done the same thing or, would they not nowadays?

I used to tell DC when they were very young that there are people who might like to take them to live in their house as their DC. That was enough. When they were a bit older I extended it and said they'd be a slave and have to do the dishes and washing every day.

Our biggest fear is paedophiles but theirs is having to call someone else mummy or daddy. Or having to do chores!

We also had a password which would be used if they were going to be picked up by anyone else. Plus a 'no secrets, only surprises' motto.

DSS couldn't differentiate between people who are actually my friends and people I just knew their names, recognised to say hello to when he was 9/10! He was always allowed to go off on his own to the park and shops when he lived with his mum aged 7 and below - how he never went off with someone then amazes me.

Since living with me and DH, his Ddad, he is much more aware of the fact that just because you know someone's name, or see them everyday on the way to school they are not friends or actually people we even know.

I agree about online 'strangers'. DSS has maximum parental controls on his iPad and iPhone (both presents from his mum), and his texts are checked regularly as a couple of years ago he was chatting in whatsapp groups with school friends and "their friends" who we did not know. No more what's app for him. He will never be allowed social media!

There are some good points on here.
Marking my place!

This is such a hard ground to tread isn't it? I remember being 13 or so and my mum had gone to the most local supermarket superstore and my dad and I drove up, he waited in the car and I went to look for mum. I saw a child maybe 4ish running up a side aisle calling for mummy and looking upset so I asked if he'd lost his mummy and he said he had. I had 2 DNieces at that time of 4 and 2 so I put out my hand and said 'it's ok, we'll find her, lets go and tell the people at the desk and they'll call her for us'. He went apeshit, screaming 'No, you can't take me, you're taking me, mummy! Mummy!' Etc. I didn't know what to do, I just stood there gawping and shitting myself that this kid thought I was taking him so I ran to find my mum. She came back with me (took a few minutes to find her) and he'd been reunited with his mum who'd clearly found him so I asked my mum to tell her I wasn't trying to take him but she dismissed it as fine as he was clearly ok, she was busy and rushing to get home. In the car home we talked about it and I said I had wanted her to tell his mum I'd obviously upset him and for her to know so when/ if he told her someone had tried to 'take' him she'd know I was trying to help (and could relate that to him perhaps) My mum agreed then and said she was sorry she hadn't paid attention to what I was saying at the time.
But now when it comes to dd and we have had the recent news story about the girls taking a child from a shopping centre recently, coupled with poor James Bulger's death which had already happened at that time it makes me worry about not only dd being lost and not accepting help because I've told her not to but accepting help and someone abusing that. How can we win?

My dc have always been told that I would never, ever get somebody else to collect them and say that I had sent them. If it happened in an emergency then I'd phone the school. Basically they were told not to go with anybody except me even if they knew them unless I had personally told them to or I wouldn't know where they were.

"I was wondering at what age you start discussing these things - both about not going away with anyone and also about the no inappropriate touching."

HoggleHoggle, one useful way to bring it up is by showing the child that he has the right to set his own personal boundaries.

Personally I am not a big fan of the pants rule or discussions of private parts because abusers tend to be more subtle than that. It often starts off with a small transgression which the child senses is wrong but where no specific wrongdoing could be pinned on the would-be abuser: standing just a little too close, or putting an unwanted arm around the child's shoulders. Over time, usually over a number of occasions, the boundaries are pushed further and further. Better for the child to assert himself at an early stage, as soon as he gets a bad feeling about what is happening, rather than waiting until things have progressed to the point that the abuser is trying to touch the child's private parts.

Examples of occasions which could be learning opportunities:

Tell him he doesn't have to kiss granny just because she is trying to demand it. If he doesn't want to, he doesn't have to.

Stick up for him when people are roughhousing, so he sees that he is allowed to say no: "He told you to stop tickling him. He doesn't like it. Get off him NOW."

If he doesn't want to be with someone, of course it's good to try to find out why. But if he can't explain it, accept it anyway. Children have very good instincts. Give him the right to avoid someone, especially to avoid being alone with someone. Don't require a reason from him if he cannot identify one. Let him stop the piano or swimming lessons, or offer to find him a different teacher. If he shows reluctance to be left with the neighbour when you go out for the evening, find a different babysitter. By listening to him in this way, you empower him to get out of situations which feel wrong. Even if this particular piano teacher or swimming instructor or babysitter happens to be harmless, he'll know that in future it's OK to avoid people who give him the creeps, and that could save him.

Little house the difficulty there is emergencies. Thats why a password handy. I was in a bad car accident while dd at nursery, exh is military and was away on exercise so a friend had to collect her.

Saracen you're right of course no plan is perfect, but it's better than nothing (pants rule) and better than previous schemes.

We've focused more on not going with strangers rather than not talking to them. An easier message to drum home given the amount of time that friendly strangers talk to them on public transport etc.

Tell your child that random adults do not drive around with toys/sweets/whatever for children. They are always up to no good of they offer one.

Tell him no grown up needs the help of a child to do anything, including looking for some lost pet or a wallet lost in the gents' or anything else.

No adult needs the help of a child to read a map.

No adult needs the help of a child to find something that rolled under the back seat of his car.

You would never send a stranger to pick him up and bring him home or anywhere else. His help will never be needed in a family emergency that a stranger needs to take him to.

Give DS a password.

Tell him no grown up has the right to ask him to keep a secret. He can pretend to keep a secret but he needs to tell you right away about any grown up who asks him to keep one.

Practice with DS as he shouts 'NO!'
Assure him it is great to be loud and to shout. Nobody will get mad with him for being rude. Assure him you will never be angry if some grown up comes to you to tell about him being 'rude' or 'unhelpful'.

Assure him that nothing that ever happens is his fault and that he can always tell you of any worries or incidents.

Vastly more important to teach children about boundaries with people they know.
YY to this.
Apart from the obvious reason, this is good training for children when dealing with strangers.

If he doesn't want to be with someone, of course it's good to try to find out why. But if he can't explain it, accept it anyway

Good advice. Had this come up recently when OH's little sister's step-dad mentioned that he's available to babysit as he's inbetween jobs at the moment. I told OH that's not going to happen as DD had told me the day before (after this step-dad had come for a little visit and said hi to us) that she doesn't like him. I asked her why and she couldn't really explain it, in the end she just said he's too fat, but whatever the reason, she is clearly uncomfortable with him so he will not be babysitting.