To be furious with this teacher.

[AlarmBells]

Sorry this is a bit long but I need a rant!

So, but of background, ds who's 8 has had a difficult relationship with school. We've been in a few times to talk about behaviour. (Attitude, talking back, arguing in class)

Every time we've been in I've tried my best to be supportive. I don't agree with punishing children twice for offenses, but I have a stern talk with him when we get home and we talk about what's triggering it, and how me and the teacher can help him.

We were called in again today, another frustrating session. Apparently DS swore and shouted at a boy in class, who (and the teacher admitted it) had been annoying him by sticking his tongue out and making noises at him.

She says he'she's often rude and talks back consistently...he says the other kids in class are always annoying him. I asked what was being done about that and teacher smiled patronisingly, rolled her eyes and said she's had a word with the parents and the children. She then turned to DS and said 'we are talking about YOUR behaviour though' with another smirk.

Anyway, we left, I again promised to talk to DS when home. She saw us to the door. However when she turned back I realised we'd forgotten his book bag, so I caught door as it was closing and nipped back in (DS stayed outside).

I was just outside the class room and heard this exchange.

' Do you have a brick wall I can bag my head against'
'Is it xxxxx again?'
'Oh God, he's just so rude! And his mum thinks he sh*ts gold, that's the problem! He just gets home and whines to mummy he's being picked on and she laps up every word! Funny how he only does that when he gets a bollocking. Little shit'
'What are you going to do?'
'She sounds like she's making screechy sound from psycho, they laugh'.

I quickly and quietly get out, but I'm still fuming. Totally unprofessional, yes? I know they thought I was out the building, but still. I now know a few things:

1. She has talked about my son like this before.
   
2. she refers to children as 'little shits'
   
3. She is completely two faced
   
4. she has no regards for ds's feelings during all this.
   
   What's my next move? Feeling distraught. May email head tonight/ tommorow morning.

[echt]

He's not been violent

So that's where you set the bar.

[Haffdonga]

It's not fair to poke someone when you know they have a short fuse

Hahaha! Talk about not accepting responsibility

You think that in life people choose not to pick on people because they have a short fuse? Wouldn't that be a lovely world if people chose only to provoke others who they knew wouldn't rise to it. There'd be no pub fights, no football hooliganism, no war.

On the other hand, you could encourage your son to develop the skills not to be short fused by not condoning his terrible behaviour by blaming the other kids.

[Osolea]

On the punishing twice thing, I've taken the line with my ds that if the school has seen fit to contact me about behaviour and I've had to go into school or have phone calls then it's fair for him to have a home punishment as well, because it has affected us at home. It's only come up a couple of times in secondary though, and if I'd ever heard that he'd swore at primary school I'd be livid and there's no way he'd get away without a sanction at home.

The teacher is only human, and everyone talks about stressful things at work to the colleagues they are close to. The teacher has likely already had a conversation about your ds, and the way she feels you are dealing with it with her head teacher. An email is unlikely to achieve anything, head teachers already know that their staff complain about parents to each other.

[CaptainCrunch]

Basically you're saying "I've tried nothing and I'm all out of ideas". Have you ever properly talked to your ds and asked him what makes him want to be disruptive/why he shouts out/answers back/how this makes others feel.

Please do something. Your ds and his classmates education will suffer if you don't.

[Floggingmolly]

How would he be punished twice if he gets a sanction at home? He's told off by the teacher when he's misbehaving, but you really think that's the end of it (apart from the "stern" talks which are obviously not having the slightest impact)?
Your post @ 20.18:
the teacher has always seemed to take a dislike to him. This has confirmed it
after all those posters telling you ywbu is staggering. You just don't get it, do you?

[ExitPursuedByABear]

You are still making excuses for him.

[TheNotoriousPMT]

If your ds does not stop 'being rude, talking back' and shouting and swearing in the classroom then all his future teachers will think the same thing.

I can kind of see the point of the not-punishing-twice-for-the-same-offence thing, but... Your ds' attitude to his education is heavily influenced by your attitude to his education. It is vital that he sees clearly that you and the school are on the same side: wanting him to learn stuff. He cannot learn stuff when he is arguing with the teacher and swearing at his classmates.

Honestly OP, start sorting this out now. It isn't fair on your ds and it isn't fair on the other dc in his class. Teachers call parents in when all the usual strategies are failing. You need to support this teacher in educating your ds.

[MilkTwoSugarsThanks]

If DS misbehaves in school he is punished by the school.

He is then punished by me - not directly for the behaviour, but for humiliating me.

He has only ever done it once.

[AliceInUnderpants]

What works? You should know, he's your son. He's 8 years old, what punishments have you tried?

[ZedWoman]

Hmm.

I don't know why, but something doesn't seem quite right here.

I've never shouted 'reverse' before, but this thread is just too obvious.

I may be wrong.

[idril]

I think this sentence may be part of the problem:

"...when we get home and we talk about what's triggering it, and how me and the teacher can help him. "

Rather than ask him what is triggering it, you could try saying "It doesn't matter what X does to you. You still can't swear/be disruptive/rude"

Asking him what is triggering it, does sound like you are excusing his behaviour. Although I would acknowledge that X has also done wrong but that still doesn't excuse your son's behaviour.

Asking him how you and the teacher can help is also permissing his behaviour.

[Shakey15000]

echt

Of course, but then not consider it grounds for emailing the HT. It was a private conversation

Which I said they were perfectly entitled to have? Not condoning complaining at all but rather use it as an opportunity to change approach

which is also what I mostly said

[Youarenotkiddingme]

I think people aren't seeing what could be happening - eg, that this wouldn't behave this way if other children didn't wind him up.
That doesn't make the behaviour acceptable. It doesn't mean there shouldn't be consequences. But it is a factor.

Seriously op read the schools behaviour plan. Make sure you make it clear to them that you understand they'll escalate consequence inline with it. Then ask them how they will support your DS to make better choices alongside this.

I'd suggest as well getting the dawn heubnet book "what to do when yiur anger flares" to work through with DS. Teach him stategies not to fly off the handle so quickly, to take a bepreak, walk away, ask to work elsewhere. Teach him that if he removes himself then he can't do something unacceptable and he won't be the one in trouble.

[Arkwright]

Before you do anything have a good long think. You are not with him in the class. She sounds completely at the end of her tether. I have never been called in about my childrens behaviour and would be mortified if I was. You seem ready to blame every one else. You need to come up with some better solutions early to bed, no computer time, no tv, removal of toys.

[letthefundusbegin]

MAUI MAUI MAUI

That is all.

[TheSultanofPingu]

Op, you were called in to talk about your son's behaviour, not the behaviour of other children. I can see why the teacher was frustrated.
Conversations like the one you overheard must go on in school's all round the country every day. It's unfortunate that you heard a conversation that was meant to be private.

[AlarmBells]

Ok, I've had my slice of humble pie.
I'm almost in tears tbh. I've tried so hard with him (or I thought I had) and obviously I've just been a bit of a wet drip. I accept defeat. I won't speak to teacher.

It's just hard when he's my world and it seems like I'm the only one rooting for him. Maybe I am just a shit parent.

What do we think of removing internet privileges if I get a bad report? An okay start?

[Medusacascade]

I don't punish at home for school detentions. But my child isn't rude or disruptive in class. He does have ASD but I work with the school to address problems the school environment causes.

I bet that the other children know how to push his buttons to work him up which isn't helping.

Perhaps if you feel that your relationship with the teacher has broken down you could try working with the senco. Admit there is a problem to yourself. Even if it's just the fact he had a short fuse he's not managing.

Maybe a home school book will help so the teacher can feed back to you and vice versa.

When things go wrong at school my first question is what happened immediately before the incident,

would it help to move him to a different table? Have a lunch time buddy? A place he can go to to calm down?

My DS swears badly. It's something I constantly work on but they are words he has learnt from people on buses, parks, out and about. People swear everywhere and he's picked it up.

It's not long until the summer when he will get a new teacher. I wouldn't rock the boat with this but try and work positively with the school to move forward.

[TheNotoriousPMT]

Punishment suggestion:

Write a letter of apology to whoever it was he swore at.

[MintJulip]

Op I really feel for you, no matter how bad your sons behaviour is, thats a really mortifying convo to listen too.

I think any of our feelings would be deeply hurt by this. This is ops son after all. She is supposed to be on his side.

However, I am also "aware" of a little girl in ds school who has been since I have known her, to be consistently rude, awful behavior, challenging ( no sn) and I have seen MUM in action doing NOTHING!! Never a raised voice, never more than a gentle reprimand, ever!!! And its really frustrating, this girl now disrupts the class on a very regular basis and is mid primary school.

I have even been at a play ground, witnessed this child sneak over to another and to my astonishment shove them violently ( a toddler) the mother came crying over "whose girl is this" and the Mum, was asrey and defensive and wasn't interested in her childs behaviour and asked her " what did you do?" the child WEEDLED OUT OF IT AS USUAL. This was the last time I ever went out with them. It had gone too far and was too frustrating.

I have therefore seen the long term damaging effects of leaving a child who is consistently disruptive. Parents come up to me to chat about the school and mention this girls name, all the time. They all know their childs day is disrupted by this girl.

Its simply not behavior I would have ever tolerated. The mum is all woo by the way.

So, from this perspective I can imagine that teachers frustration.
Personally I think teachers and parents should work in tandem to support each other with children like this. Work out punishments together. Banning tech would for instance be a powerful tool in this house! Loss of home privileges.

So I think you should email the school, you should say you accidentally over heard this conversation, your upset, you don't think the language used was appropriate or helpful, however you have also realized this issue with your son goes far deeper than you had previously thought and can you have a meeting with the school to come together to try and resolve it for everyone's sake.

[YorkieDorkie]

YABU. She has your child for 30 focused hours per week and he is causing her problems which you aren't addressing. I have definitely had a good rant about children and their parents and it IS like banging your head against a brick wall. The difference is, I've never done it before checking that the coast is clear and I see parents out of the building carefully. It's not great to be searching for others to blame in front of your son. I'm not surprised that his behaviour isn't improving from that alone.

Also... children LIE. Do you really believe that the teacher screamed at him unless he had done something wrong? I have opened up the eyes of many parents who believed the utter tripe their kids come home with.

[peacheshoney]

we talk about what's triggering it, and how me and the teacher can help him.

so how are you showing him that you are on the teacher's side? It sounds like an invitation for him to find excuses for his behaviour.
This, you realise, is why the other children dislike him, because he disrupts the class all the time!

[Haffdonga]

If you seriously want to help your son and you don't believe in punishment then how about this?

Ask for another meeting with his teacher. Tell her that you are ashamed and embarrassed by your son's terrible behaviour and you'd like to work with her to improve it. Ask her to report to you every session or day on his behaviour e.g just a smiley or sad face. For every day he comes out of school with a clean sheet, he gets a small treat from you. (time playing on the console or whatever). If he gets a clean sheet for a week he gets a bigger reward.

I bet the teacher would be delighted that you want to work with her.

[Littleroundtable]

I don't have a child this age so I can't help but having read this thread I just wanted to say: can anyone offer constructive support? Examples of what to do, where to access support?

Only a couple of useful suggestions so far

[ExitPursuedByABear]

Internet privileges? At 8?

There's your problem.