To be furious with this teacher.

[AlarmBells]

Sorry this is a bit long but I need a rant!

So, but of background, ds who's 8 has had a difficult relationship with school. We've been in a few times to talk about behaviour. (Attitude, talking back, arguing in class)

Every time we've been in I've tried my best to be supportive. I don't agree with punishing children twice for offenses, but I have a stern talk with him when we get home and we talk about what's triggering it, and how me and the teacher can help him.

We were called in again today, another frustrating session. Apparently DS swore and shouted at a boy in class, who (and the teacher admitted it) had been annoying him by sticking his tongue out and making noises at him.

She says he'she's often rude and talks back consistently...he says the other kids in class are always annoying him. I asked what was being done about that and teacher smiled patronisingly, rolled her eyes and said she's had a word with the parents and the children. She then turned to DS and said 'we are talking about YOUR behaviour though' with another smirk.

Anyway, we left, I again promised to talk to DS when home. She saw us to the door. However when she turned back I realised we'd forgotten his book bag, so I caught door as it was closing and nipped back in (DS stayed outside).

I was just outside the class room and heard this exchange.

' Do you have a brick wall I can bag my head against'
'Is it xxxxx again?'
'Oh God, he's just so rude! And his mum thinks he sh*ts gold, that's the problem! He just gets home and whines to mummy he's being picked on and she laps up every word! Funny how he only does that when he gets a bollocking. Little shit'
'What are you going to do?'
'She sounds like she's making screechy sound from psycho, they laugh'.

I quickly and quietly get out, but I'm still fuming. Totally unprofessional, yes? I know they thought I was out the building, but still. I now know a few things:

1. She has talked about my son like this before.
2. she refers to children as 'little shits'
3. She is completely two faced
4. she has no regards for ds's feelings during all this.

What's my next move? Feeling distraught. May email head tonight/ tommorow morning.

They saw you out, turned their backs and you 'caught' the door. That sounds like trespassing to me. They believed you were out of the school. They did not invite you back in.

You then eavesdropped on a private conversation.

I think you need to take this as a blessing. You obviously aren't getting the message that your ds is being incredibly disruptive to himself, his teacher and his classmates who have to listen to his outbursts and language.

It doesn't matter what your beliefs on punishments are. It isn't working. You either need to come down hard and in conjunction with the school or start investigating potential reasons such as sen or mental health problems.

Something needs to change. Complaining about staff in a private setting while they thought they were alone will not help much. The HT will be aware of the situation and while apologetic about what you heard, will probably see it as another diversion tactic.

Whilst I agree her referring to your child as a little shut is not on I actually think she has a fairly good point on the rest of it.

Your post shows that you are not actually tackling your sons behaviour. Talking to him and allowing him to blame it on other kids picking on him is not teaching him that his behaviour is wrong.

It sounds like the school are exasperated by the lack of support from you and the fact that his behaviour is not improving.

Other than having a stern word what actually are you doing to manage his behaviour and teach him it is unacceptable?

As someone who works with children your son's age in a primary school, some can behave shockingly poorly at school. I'm talking language, attitude, behaviour, blaming others for their own poor choices, etc.

Are you sure your DS isn't one of them? Because it sounds like he may be. His teacher was polite and on point with your son and you during your meeting, but you didn't appear to be hearing her re your son's poor choices. And he was focused on everyone else (blaming) and you're lapping it up. I don't blame the teacher for being frustrated if his behaviour is nightmarish and you're not seeing it.

At least that's how it sounds ...

And I see it All.The.Time at school.

Children don't have to be violent to be really bloody disruptive.

So your son is swearing and shouting in class? Frankly, it sounds like he is behaving appallingly and unless you get on side with the school and back them up quickly and strongly then the situation will get worse in the future.

The teacher was right to talk to you and your son about his behaviour and his behaviour alone, not anyone else's. If I was you I'd be mortified that a teacher felt that about my child and I'd be doing everything I could to work with the school to show the teachers you support them in disciplining your son, first and most importantly by showing your son that you have listened to what the teacher said, BELIEVE THEM and that there will be consequences from you unless his behaviour improves.

It's parents like you that make teaching an almost impossible job.

Does he shit gold?

" It's not fair to poke someone when you know they have a short fuse."

That's a complex one. While on the surface it would be easy to agree, my abusive OH used to pull that card when he smacked me.
The result was that I would be walking around on eggshells, and if I did "poke him", he would hit me and then be angry because I should know that he had a short fuse.

Perhaps some anger management would be in order for your son?

I was wondering if you could have ASD so although he copes well at home he isn't coping at school and he actually takes very little provoking to have a major reaction?

"We were called in again..." Not supportive about dealing with your DS's poor behaviour from the very start of the meeting. Do you think the teacher wanted to call you in again?!!

Have you considered that the other children 'stick their tongues out' him because they dislike his disruptive/poor behaviour?

The teacher has a right to rant after a long day teaching that ended with a meeting where she was questioned by a mother who is not supporting her in doing her job.

We are human and it's unfortunate for you to hear her speak like that but try to use it to consider where to move forward with your DS's behaviour.

I teach some truly awfully behaved secondary school children. I have spoken with unsupportive parents who blame me/others/the weather and sworn after all of them. I would honestly try to encourage your son's behaviour in school now before it turns into something that disrupts his education further.

Could you arrange another meeting? Tell her what you heard, but try to keep calm and positive about your steps forward to resolve the issue.

You seem very ... Wet

But if you don't sanction his behaviour at school, what is his incentive to stop? You say you are only just thinking about removing privileges for rude behaviour and swearing at school. Surely this should have been one of the first things you did? You do seem more concerned about other children being reprimanded, their parents are responsible for their children's behaviour, you are responsible for managing the behaviour of your son.

You've got to cut her some slack, I think. If your child is persistently rude and obnoxious in class, and you are doing very little about it other than make excuses for him, you can understand her frustration. I'd agree with previous posters - be honest with yourself, and think about the impact your child's behaviour is going to have on him and on others. Then put a stop to it
Agree with this entirely.

It doesnt sound like you have actually read any of the replies op.

If the teacher has resorted to shouting 'get out of my classroom' then i can tell you without question your child's behaviour was unbearable at that point.

Dont just think about it, remove privileges. For an anount of time that is a sacrifice to your son. He clearly needs it.

If 'never violent' is the bench mark of bad behaviour for you, you need to raise your standards and expectations.

Short fuse? You need to deal with that too.

Stop making excises for your son's behaviour. It is clearly appalling. Start dealing with his behaviour properly.

He's never violent though, and he's perfectly fine at home, I guess I find it hard to see him being rude in school?

so as long as he is non violent the school should put up with it? and just because he is fine at home, he should be fine at school? at home its possibly one or two other children and 2 (?) adults. the staff are dealing with up to 30 children with 2 (possibly 3) adults. think how much harder it is to keep on top of bad behaviour.
you also dont seem to believe that he behaves badly...you think the staff are making it up?

He's not been violent, a week seems very long.

You keep mentioning that he isn't violent as of it excuses his behaviour. It doesn't.

So he isn't violent? This seems to be your benchmark for how unacceptable his behaviour is. A child can be extremely disruptive and unpleasant without bring violent.

Now that you know what people really think of him what are you going to do about him?

School environment would often be the only place to have those 'private conversations' . Where else and to whom else would it happen? Down the pub? At a friends house? Even to a partner? Not appropriate at all.
Discussing a days events and having a consequence for them is not punishing twice, it is following up an unacceptable situation.
And having a short fuse is not a get out of jail free card for a child in a class of 30 who all may have equally short fuses.
Having said that, not nice for you to hear, but do you think some of the hurt you are feeling might be because a nerve has been struck.
And does this teacher only 'smirk' and 'screech' etc? You don't like them much, do you?

Who cares whether or not he's been violent? He's behaving like a little shit and your reluctance to discipline him is noted by the staff. Do something about your son!

Your son sounds vile. Is that who you want him to grow u to be? You gunna make excuses for him as he slowly gets worse?! He might not be violent- yet.
You should have parented him years ago. Start now before its really to late

We've been in a few times to talk about behaviour. (Attitude, talking back, arguing in class)
At 8, he should know how to behave in a classroom. None of this seems like impulsive behaviour, but rather something he is more in control of, and therefore should be reigning in.

Every time we've been in I've tried my best to be supportive.
How? Obviously the teacher doesn't seem to think so, so what are you doing that is supportive, and is there a way that you can better convey this support to the teacher.

I don't agree with punishing children twice for offenses
Given this approach isn't working, it 's probably time to re-think this approach. If my children misbehave in school, thge teacher deals with it. I, however, then punish them for having behaved in a way that meant their teacher had to do this.

but I have a stern talk with him when we get home and we talk about what's triggering it, and how me and the teacher can help him.
A stern talk has little to no impact on a small boy. Withholding treats, temporarily confiscating toys, postponing activities he likes all impact on him. If there's no impact to him, why should he behave? Also, it's not about you and the teacher helping him, it's about him helping himself.

Apparently DS swore and shouted at a boy in class, who (and the teacher admitted it) had been annoying him by sticking his tongue out and making noises at him.
What has you DS said he did? Apparently makes it seem like you don't believe the teacher. And why is your 8 year old swearing at other kids. That's not acceptable. TBH, it seems like other kids know they can get a rise out of your son, which makes it more likely they'll try to provoke him.

She says he'she's often rude and talks back consistently..
And how do you deal with this? Your son is rude and disrespectful, so what are you doing to address that?

He says the other kids in class are always annoying him. I asked what was being done about that and teacher smiled patronisingly, rolled her eyes and said she's had a word with the parents and the children. She then turned to DS and said 'we are talking about YOUR behaviour though' with another smirk.
And she's right. This is about him. Nobody MADE him swear. Nobody MADE him answer back. These are choices he's making.

Anyway, we left, I again promised to talk to DS when home.
But why keep doing what obviously isn't working? Talking isn't leading to any improvement in his behaviour, so why keep sticking with that?

I'm still fuming.
It's concerning that you're fuming about what the teacher said, but not about your 8 year old swearing, being rude, disrespectful and aggressive. You're focussing on the wrong thing here.

1) She has talked about my son like this before. Because he has behaved like this before.
2) she refers to children as 'little shits' No. She referred to your son as a little shit. That is how he is presenting himself to her.
3) She is completely two faced No she's not. She's human. She is dealing with continual disrespect from your son, and she vented to a colleague. Would you rather she said exactly what she thought of him to him?
4) she has no regards for ds's feelings during all this. And you appear to have no regard for hers. Your son's behaviour is impacting other people. It's not all about him. How about her feelings? Why should she have to deal with a little boy who is aggressive, rude and disrespectful, because you have decided to do nothing more than have ineffective stern talks with him.

I feel sorry for both the teacher and your son, because right now, your refusal to step up to the plate and be a parent, is impacting detrimentally on both their daily lives.

We don't punish adults twice, surely quite odd to do it to chn? My parents never did.

And I guess it never did you any harm? Certainly not in learning to parent your own child. I'm sure.

For the record, these types of conversations about god awful parents and their perfect darling children go on all the time, it's nothing new and you sound like you deserve it.

Yabvvvvvvu!
You have created this problem through your lack of punishments.
Adults don't get punished twice, errr, yeah they do. I know of someone who did something that got him into trouble at work. He got fired from work, and charged by the police. That's being punished twice isn't it?

I'm a teacher. I often find it hard to swallow that my 10 year old son can be a little shit at school.

Natural parental instinct to protect your child.

But good parenting also requires a step back to see what you don't want to see. This is much harder than mere protecting him from criticism.

I do think u need to step up your response to DS's behaviour - he shouldn't be swearing, at anyone, for any reason at 8 - it doesn't matter if someone is pulling faces or whatever, it's not ok, and there would be chaos if all the kids acted like that. Maybe you could take the angle in talking to him, that he is getting big now and you can see he is more mature, and needs to learn to manage his feelings, and take responsibility for his behaviour, to set a good example for smaller children - the time for being impulsive like a little kid is over (so that he sees a logic, rather than you changing approach for not clear reason).
And there should be a consequence, each time the school reports poor behaviour - loss of a privilege, deduction of pocket money - something that matters to him. You could also maybe ask the school to report good days to you, so you can praise that, and maybe give a (small) reward, so it's not all negatives...

But I don't agree with the 'she's only human' angle really tho for the teacher. She can express exasperation to a colleague without calling anyone a shit - she's a professional in her workplace, and it's just not appropriate - apart from anything else, how can children be taught what is acceptable behaviour if they may overhear this kind of language and attitude (and if you overheard, it's possible a child could another time...). That said, reporting her is not likely to improve relations for your son. so I might let that go unless anything similar happened again.