To be furious with this teacher.

[AlarmBells]

Sorry this is a bit long but I need a rant!

So, but of background, ds who's 8 has had a difficult relationship with school. We've been in a few times to talk about behaviour. (Attitude, talking back, arguing in class)

Every time we've been in I've tried my best to be supportive. I don't agree with punishing children twice for offenses, but I have a stern talk with him when we get home and we talk about what's triggering it, and how me and the teacher can help him.

We were called in again today, another frustrating session. Apparently DS swore and shouted at a boy in class, who (and the teacher admitted it) had been annoying him by sticking his tongue out and making noises at him.

She says he'she's often rude and talks back consistently...he says the other kids in class are always annoying him. I asked what was being done about that and teacher smiled patronisingly, rolled her eyes and said she's had a word with the parents and the children. She then turned to DS and said 'we are talking about YOUR behaviour though' with another smirk.

Anyway, we left, I again promised to talk to DS when home. She saw us to the door. However when she turned back I realised we'd forgotten his book bag, so I caught door as it was closing and nipped back in (DS stayed outside).

I was just outside the class room and heard this exchange.

' Do you have a brick wall I can bag my head against'
'Is it xxxxx again?'
'Oh God, he's just so rude! And his mum thinks he sh*ts gold, that's the problem! He just gets home and whines to mummy he's being picked on and she laps up every word! Funny how he only does that when he gets a bollocking. Little shit'
'What are you going to do?'
'She sounds like she's making screechy sound from psycho, they laugh'.

I quickly and quietly get out, but I'm still fuming. Totally unprofessional, yes? I know they thought I was out the building, but still. I now know a few things:

1. She has talked about my son like this before.
   
2. she refers to children as 'little shits'
   
3. She is completely two faced
   
4. she has no regards for ds's feelings during all this.
   
   What's my next move? Feeling distraught. May email head tonight/ tommorow morning.

[Chrysanthemum5]

While I agree with the other posts that maybe you need to look at how you are dealing with your child's behaviour - I still don't think that excuses the teachers behaviour. I know she may be frustrated by the situation but calling your child names and swearing about him is not ok in my opinion.

I work with students, some of whom can be very demanding and rude but I don't swear about then to colleagues.

I would email the teacher to say you overheard and you are upset by the way she spoke about your child. Reiterate that you are trying to deal with your child's behaviour and ask for suggestions.

[GottaGetThisDone]

Yes she was rude but it was said in private, eavesdropping rarely brings good.
I am interested in the not punishing twice issue. What actually happens at the school that makes you think not giving him punishment at home is ok? There is only so much they can do, but you at home could do more, and make him realise there ARE consequences to his behaviour
Swearing, talking back, arguing, being rude is disrespectful and warrants punishment at home as well as school. Until now it seems he has got away with it, so why should he stop?

[Shakey15000]

To the point raised about "not continuing to eavesdrop" surely the majority of people would listen if you know someone is talking about you??

But that aside, I agree that they were perfect entitled to have that, what they believed private, conversation. And I also would be questioning my approach on what has happened behaviour wise today/previously given what I heard.

Not nice to hear, but I would try and tackle it as an opportunity.

[Checkedstripes]

I think you should appreciate how frustrating it is for a teacher to call in a parent to discuss behaviour - this is a big thing in most schools and frankly the fact that it appears to be happening on a regular basis shows that as a parent you are clearly not getting the seriousness of the situation home to your DS. Teachers vent - we have to and we have to be able to feel that we can do that because otherwise the pressure builds up. If the member of staff feels this way about your child then maybe take a step back and consider the situation from their point of view. Yes you might be distraught at hearing your child called this but actually it sounds like the teacher is being pushed and your lack of cooperation (sorry, turning up to a meeting and being apathetic doesn't really count) is forcing the issue.

[CaptainCrunch]

I'm a learning assistant in a primary school and this doesn't come as any surprise to me.

Teachers get frustrated and angry with parents who don't address their dc behaviour and its negative impact on the class.

She was letting off steam privately and you have to take on board that you're possibly contributing to the problem.

[UsainWho]

Not a nice thing to hear someone talking about you like that, but it was private and my teacher friends say worse.

However, you need to change how you approach these meetings. I have been there. Turn the focus back onto how they are dealing with it at school, what their plans are and how you can back them up at home. I can talk to him until the cows come home but I'm not there during the day. They can't just complain, a strategy is required.

BTW, you really need to punish at home too, the school is limited in what they can do, you can really drive home that it is unacceptable.

[Strokethefurrywall]

You sound like every teachers' worst nightmare as a parent.

"I don't believe in punishing twice" - that may be exactly why your child has been dubbed a little shit. If you don't give him discipline or boundaries and he doesn't respect your authority, he sure as hell isn't going to respect anyone else's.

[exLtEveDallas]

DD has a child like yours in her class. You really don't want to hear the conversations we have about him - DD doesn't call him a 'little shit' (because she doesn't know that expression) but trust me, she certainly calls him the 11 year old version. As do her friends going by her Instagram conversations.

You may not agree with punishing twice - but you don't have to. He gets X punishment at school for (for eg) swearing. You punish him for getting you called into school. He gets Y punishment at school for his attitude. You punish him for showing disrespect to his teacher.

I bet it was horrible to hear his teacher(s) talking about him like that - but his behaviour is obviously affecting everyone - pupils and staff. You need to get a handle on this.

[AlarmBells]

Wow, OK.
It was a 'private' combo, I suppose, but it's still in a school environment, so imo still unprofessional.
I don't believe in punishing twice, no. Perhaps I will think about the removal of privileges, but I just think, he's already got 'a bollocking' (he tells me she shouts at him and has screeched 'get out of my classroom' despite recieving only one warning). We don't punish adults twice, surely quite odd to do it to chn? My parents never did.

I know he must be a pain in class sometimes. He's never violent though, and he's perfectly fine at home, I guess I find it hard to see him being rude in school?

As for the other children, I'm not making excuses. I just want to know they are being dealt with equally. It's not fair to poke someone when you know they have a short fuse. I know they are winding him up quite a lot, and it just doesn't seem like he's being taken seriously.

Like I said, I do my best to support. I just don't like to shout and screech, and the teacher has always seemed to take a dislike to him. This has confirmed it.

I might not email head but I'm almost definitely going to have a word with the teacher, I'm not happy.

[lifesalongsong]

Not very nice to hear at all but I'd wonder too if there's truth to it.

I'm surprised people are querying the double punishment , it was on MN that I learnt that you shouldn't punish at homefotr something already addressecd at school

[Littlemisslovesspiders]

it does sound like his behaviour is pretty dire and you don't seem to be taking that very seriously

^ agreed.

YABU

What are you doing about your DC behaviour?

It does sound as if he is quite disruptive an understatement

[PPie10]

You aren't doing him any favours by not disciplining him properly. No one likes children like this, not even other kids. If it wasn't the teacher, it will be other parents or kids themselves who will think of him this way. You need to step up the way you are tackling his naughty behaviour.

[nobilityobliges]

I actually don't think she's acted unprofessionally. She wasn't to know you were there to overhear. In the context of talking to a colleague in confidence, I don't think that was an unprofessional conversation to have. I also don't think she's two faced. You would be U to complain.

[echt]

To the point raised about "not continuing to eavesdrop" surely the majority of people would listen if you know someone is talking about you??

Of course, but then not consider it grounds for emailing the HT. It was a private conversation.

[MsAdorabelleDearheartVonLipwig]

Yep, that's what you get for eavesdropping. She'd have probably been mortified if she'd realised you heard her though, she was obviously professional during your meeting.

So your main concern is your teachers honest reaction? Not your awfully behaved child?

[AvonleaAnne]

It sounds like you might have heard what they really think about your son. You need to deal with his bad behaviour. If I found out my child had used swear words or had not been treating his teacher with respect they would be banned from TV, iPad and computer for a week at least.

[Youarenotkiddingme]

I actually don't agree with punishing a child at home for school misdemeanours. I've had school comment on it in a way of "I told HoY yiu don't punish at home for things DS does at school" to which I replied "no I don't - do you punish at school for things a pupil does at home?" Subject was changed!

However, during this conversation I did make sure school knew I supported them. I asked them what their behaviour policy is and what they will do next and what they are going to do to support my DS to rein in his temper and how he can calm down before he hits this point. I also asked for confirmation they'd deal with the pupils bullying DS and contributing to his behaviour.

TBH if I heard staff speaking like this I'd be upset too. I wouldn't take it personally but I'd think maybe she has a difficult bunch of students and no support. And that is what I'd be emailing HT teacher about.

Saying I overheard the teachers use of wording with regards DS, that clearly she has a bunch of pupils who are constantly winding each other up and at least one, your DS, who isn't yet able to control his emotions. Then ask HT what support they are going to put into the classroom to support the pupils and the teacher.

And for all those saying if a child behaves like this the parents aren't dealing with it have obviously never had a child with anger/emotional problems. My DS has ASD. I've been telling school for months his behaviour at home is difficult and he's not coping with school environment. They ignored me and said 'he's happy at school' kept saying its normal to mask etc - basically it's my/ a parental issue.
It's funny how when it can no longer be contained within school it's suddenly also the parents fault.

The first thing I'd ask OP is if he can have a safe space to go and work - give him the opportunity to make the right choice to walk away. It's basic and if they don't do that then they are actually condoning the other childrens behaviour in a round about way.

[AlarmBells]

OK, so many more posts have come in since I typed! Im just not sure what type of punishment I should implement. He's not been violent, a week seems very long. Early bedtime. What works?

[ManonCrempog]

I understand the idea of not wanting to punish twice- but that clearly isn't working is it OP, so you need to think again.
As for kids pushing his buttons, people will do this to him for the rest of his life. It's annoying but it's life. He needs to know how to deal with it.

[PPie10]

Fgs your whole don't believe in punishing twice is really creating this problem. Oh shame he won't get his privileges removed are you serious. He sounds like a nightmare to teach and to other kids as well. Do something about it.

[Cliffdiver]

I agree it must have been horrible to hear your son being spoken about in this way.

However, it sounds as if the teacher has been trying harder than you to try and resolve your son's problems at school.

She has every right to be able to vent her frustrations - although in hindsight it probably would have been a better idea to do this away from the school.

I think you should raise it with the head, however there are far more serious issues that need to be looked into, I think you know what these are and you need to make sure you're not making a bigger deal of this than necessary to try and take the attention away from your son's behaviour.

[chickenowner]

You say that you find it hard to see him being rude in school, but you admit that he's swearing, arguing and answering back???

That sounds VERY rude to me!

Now imagine trying to teach 29 other children whilst dealing with that kind of behaviour.

[OrangesandLemonsNow]

I know he must be a pain in class sometimes.

You still aren't saying what you are going to do about this.

He's never violent though

That's no excuse for not tackling his behaviour.

I guess I find it hard to see him being rude in school

Are you saying they are making it up?

It does seem as if you are unwilling to address his behaviour and the school are getting frustrated.

[nobilityobliges]

And from your posts it seems like you're not backing the school up at all. The teacher "screeches" - really? It's other people's fault for provoking your son when he has a short fuse? I kind of get where she's coming from with the shits gold comment.

[WriteforFun1]

Private chat on school premises and you have an issue with that?
If I'm going to say something about an arsey client, I don't go home, then call my colleagues to say it. We talk about the PITA client in the office.

That's what they did. Of course teachers are going to call kids little shits sometimes.