to think the current NHS guidelines for alcohol and breastfeeding are batshit and not conducive to long term breastfeeding

[lemonadey]

I was at a wedding on Saturday, I took 6m old dd but me and dh decided he would be the one "on shift" and I would have a few drinks as its been a while (dd is a bottle refuser) over the course of the day I drank quite a few glasses of prosecco (I didn't count but by the end of the day it probably amounted to about a bottle) but obviously still bf dd at points and I got pretty fed up of the amount of people quite openly shocked at me breastfeeding and drinking. I do get it, the nhs guidelines are basically the same as if you're pregnant even though the way alcohol transfers to the baby is completely different and the amount of alcohol that enters your breastmilk is negligible.

I just feel it is another way for women to feel like their life is "on hold" while breastfeeding, my mum breastfed me and said she never gave a second thought to what she ate or drank and it was a really enjoyable experience for her, it was part of her life, she never expressed or "pumped and dumped".

I wish more women realised you can still have a social life that includes drinking whilst breastfeeding, the current guidelines are so ridiculously strict and just result in judging from other people and unnecessary guilt for mum.

So tell me, AIBU??

Mrs Ryan. Where have I judged? I've said repeatedly OP can drink what she likes. Just that she can't expect other people in the wedding party not to look shocked if that's is how they feel. If her friends saw her drinking thought the day ( which she said she did) and her friends disapproved but didn't actually comment then she has to accept other people feel differently. Whether this is societal conditioning, nhs guidelines, or personal preference I don't know.

I don't give a damn what anyone else chooses to do with their baby (bar child cruelty obviously) but their parenting choices are their own.

And if a tiny amount of alcohol gets through in breast milk it is the equivalent of putting the same amount in a babies bottle. Something most people wouldn't do.

Blooming. 2 things. When people say "tiny amount in milk" that is far far less than you could measure out and out in a bottle. Have you seen the numbers quoted here? 0.015 of a ml?
Secondly, I am saying that people like the OPs friends can be shocked if they like. But they are coming from a place of ignorance, and judging someone for something you know nothing about (and the beliefs you do hold are likely completely factually incorrect) is idiotic.

I must be in a tiny minority. Alcohol was the very last thing I wanted with a non sleeping baby. I don't think I had a drink until he was 1, and that put me to sleep.

pandora if you're interested in the wider social phenomenon of motherhood related lecturing and sanctimony there's some good links and resources here.

Buckin - the OP says she drank a whole bottle of wine. That's considerably more than most authorities - for example the NHS and NMC - would recommend when breastfeeding. Whether or not people should have appeared visibly shocked by the OP's actions, I don't think you can really say they are ignorant. Looking shocked at a breastfeeding woman having one drink is one thing, looking shocked at the sane person drinking a bottle of wine is different. That's still not to say people are right to look shocked, just that there is a difference and it's not ignorant to think that drinking a bottle of wine when breastfeeding may not be advisable.

The same person, not sane!

When people accuse me of saying things I haven't said or judgements I haven't made then I'm off. I just can't be bothered if people can't RTFT.

I have said the op can do as she pleases but not expect everyone to approve of her choices. Like drinking a bottle of wine and breastfeeding.

I have said I'm sure it's fine to have the odd glass. I did.

I have said alcohol is a poison (which it is classed as) and I would be reluctant to give the amount excreted in bm from a whole bottle, however tiny, to a developing brain, be it in breastmilk or formula milk.

I'm not getting into a feminist debate because society stinks in its treatment not just of women but the poor, the disabled the mentally ill and so on and it depresses me.

There is no evidence that a bottle of wine does damage anymore than a few lady like sips of Asti though is here?

Besides, they were monitoring her alcohol use? How else would they know she's had a bottle. That alone makes them ignorant arseholesw

Booming I think perhaps your tone or your comparing drinking while breastfeeding to the Zika virus are probably colouring people's views.

as it too early for

In terms of being judged, I agree. I say this as someone who has been teetotal for a number of years, although a couple of weeks ago I went for lunch at a family pub with a soft play. DS was in the soft play, DM and I were sat at the side with DD (4weeks old) and I'd ordered a bottle of alcohol-free lager as a treat because I'm so rock'n'roll, me - glass is banned in the soft play, the bar staff decant bottled drinks into plastic glasses, so to the rest of the world it looked like I was drinking half an ordinary lager... And yes, I was very well aware of the eyes of several other parents boring into me like hot pokers, complete with a couple who tutted and eye-rolled to their partners and resisted the urge to tell them to mind their own business.

As for the current guidelines not being conducive to continued BFing, though, I have to disagree with you there - as a non-drinker I don't feel at all that my life is on hold - however each to their own, and if you're comfortable to drink alcohol while BFing in public then you could do to grow a thicker skin and ignore anyone who judges.

four it was the expression tiny that offended me. A tiny bit of poison is not harmless. (By that I mean a whole bottle not a glass).

The research linked shows that even a bottle is too tiny to make any difference. I would describe that as harmless.

Buckin, there's evidence that the more alcohol a woman consumes (and consequently the higher the concentration of alcohol in breastmilk), the higher the chances are that it will affect the baby. I believe that's actually referred to in the Breastfeeding Network leaflet that was linked to earlier.

I also indulged in a cigarette last night (which I really shouldn't have, contributed to the hangover for sure). Now I know that's def not the best thing I could be doing for my baby but the NHS website (!) says that a smoking BF-er is still preferable to FF.
Obv nothing wrong with FF etc etc but I guess my point is we need to support the BF mums' choice to indulge in their occasional vices. I expect I was silently judged but no one said anything and I had a lovely evening (washed hands and cleaned teeth after) and I still feel am doing the right thing breastfeeding my baby.

"A tiny bit of poison is not harmless"

Actually, in many, many cases it actually is harmless. Hence mentions of bananas, lettuce, nutmeg etc above.

Thisiscrown - of course you disagree that the guidelines affect people when they don't affect you at all.

I am gobsmacked at the looks you got for 1/2 a lager in a pub. Some people are just pathetic.

Yes knits- that's sort of obvious I mean if I drank 25 tequila shots the affect would be more apparent than 1- but no one knows at which point it starts to affect your baby, if at all.

My babies for example- slept no differently and didn't feed any differently when I was drinking. So the only claim which appears to have some evidence behind it wasn't relevant to us.

I am only on page 2 but so much to say. I agree someone up thread - I hate the way breastfeeding is made out to be on a sort of pedestal and harder to "fulfil" all the so called requirements. It is what it is. Feeding. That's all.

Also one lady did measure her blood alcohol levels and breastmilk alcohol levels. (It would be unethical to do a study like the previous poster said!!) She found negligible amounts of breastmilk were past on. I will look for a link but I expect the thread has moved on.

ThisWasCrownjewel I shocked by your experience. No one would have given you a second look in my day and I wouldn't now. I genuinely think that our era was more laid back and "doing your own thing" was more acceptable than it appears to be today or perhaps I've just blocked put the bad memories.

Breastfeeding can be wonderful and the benefits to babies are well known, but it can also be bloody hard going. Because DS is breastfed I can't go out without him for very long, have had months and months of terrible sleep due to frequent night feeds, am often too tired to do much in the day, and as much as he is my world, feeling a bit trapped by breastfeeding certainly contributes to my pnd. Yes I've chosen to have him, yes I would do anything for him, no I don't "need" alcohol. But now he's older, having a small glass of wine once or twice a week when I know I won't be feeding him for over 2 hours means I get a bit of time to just relax and do something for myself.
I could and would continue to breastfeed and abstain if it were necessary (I'm only recently drinking at all) but if it isn't necessary then I do think it would encourage more people to breastfeed for longer. I doubt many people give up specifically in order to drink, but I think for some people (in my experience) they find breastfeeding hard, they're tired, they feel they have no freedom, they've already had 9 months or so of being restricted and having sole responsibility for their baby and if they move to formula they can share the load, have the odd night out, have some wine and all of that helps with feeling a bit more like themselves again. I don't think there is anything wrong with making a decision to move to formula for those reasons (or any other reasons), but I do think that if breastfeeding was normalised and less restrictive then it would be easier for more women to do it. I felt a lot of peer pressure from other new mums to give up breastfeeding.

You know what, this has been a really helpful thread - in particular the orange juice example. This information would be very beneficial to breastfeeding rates if more people only knew, but I suppose the powers that be would worry about women actually exercising autonomy over their bodies more than was strictly desirable

Op YANBU I did lots of research when I was breastfeeding and felt comfortable drinking moderately.
I remember having a small wine once in front of my step mother then feeding DS when he was tiny. He went to sleep after (like always) and step mother says, well I'm not surprised he's fallen asleep, he has had a glass of wine
He's a newborn baby ffs, he feeds and sleeps!

Anyway, booming your argument is soooo hypercritical, you say any "tiny" amount of alcohol is poison, yet you admit you have had a glass of wine and breastfed. So how did you decide that that tiny amount was ok, yet the op's slightly less tiny amount wasn't? Read the research, use common sense then come back.

If I hadn't read the OP's first post and only the comments I'd be imagining her chugging the wine straight from the bottle while staggering around the wedding with a pissed baby hanging on to her boob for dear life.

Spacing out a bottle's worth of prosecco over the course of a wedding would mean that breast milk contained no more alcohol at any feed than the milk of those who would only ever drink a max of one or two glasses in a day. And it's negligible anyway.

Who actually gives a shit that someone drank more than the recommended daily amount at a wedding!? Probably most of the other guests did too. There's absolutely nothing in any of her posts to imply that she has a drinking problem or that she gets pissed while in charge of the baby. Most people overindulge in something from time to time, do so many others give so much headspace to watching and judging?

Baby was safe with dad who presumably thought it would be nice for mum to let her hair down for a day after giving birth then spending the next six months attached to baby. No one would bat an eyelid if mum looked after baby all day while dad drank a bottle of wine at a party.

Ah but a TINY amount of ALCOHOL is STILL A POISON dontchaknow