to think the current NHS guidelines for alcohol and breastfeeding are batshit and not conducive to long term breastfeeding

[lemonadey]

I was at a wedding on Saturday, I took 6m old dd but me and dh decided he would be the one "on shift" and I would have a few drinks as its been a while (dd is a bottle refuser) over the course of the day I drank quite a few glasses of prosecco (I didn't count but by the end of the day it probably amounted to about a bottle) but obviously still bf dd at points and I got pretty fed up of the amount of people quite openly shocked at me breastfeeding and drinking. I do get it, the nhs guidelines are basically the same as if you're pregnant even though the way alcohol transfers to the baby is completely different and the amount of alcohol that enters your breastmilk is negligible.

I just feel it is another way for women to feel like their life is "on hold" while breastfeeding, my mum breastfed me and said she never gave a second thought to what she ate or drank and it was a really enjoyable experience for her, it was part of her life, she never expressed or "pumped and dumped".

I wish more women realised you can still have a social life that includes drinking whilst breastfeeding, the current guidelines are so ridiculously strict and just result in judging from other people and unnecessary guilt for mum.

So tell me, AIBU??

I'd heard that too many bananas can cause potassium poisoning, but how are large quantities of lettuce and nutmeg poisonous?

YANBU, at all, OP. I've been breastfeeding for most of the last six years and damn right I've had the odd drink or five. As various PP have pointed out, the amount of alcohol that gets into your milk is negligible, I'd be more worried about getting pissed and dropping the baby than poisoning them, unless I'd been necking bottles of neat vodka and someone had latched a newborn onto my unconscious form.

And yes, women do give up breastfeeding because they think that they can't have a drink, or more than one drink, or generally eat and drink as normal - I remember a woman at my local BF group who was saying she'd had a glass of wine the previous night and REALLY wanted another one, but she knew she couldn't, it'd be too dangerous (the baby in question was a strapping five month old), and was thinking of giving up BF because it was "so restrictive". (I encountered another woman at the same group who was eating a very rigidly "healthy" diet despite having a child with no allergies or intolerances because "well, every single thing you eat goes into your milk, doesn't it?", and another who thought her diet was making her milk "too weak". Er, no...)

Per the magic of Wikipedia: "In its freshly ground form (from whole nutmegs), nutmeg contains myristicin, a monoamine oxidase inhibitor. Myristicin poisoning can induce convulsions, palpitations, nausea, eventual dehydration, and generalized body pain."

I'm not sure what's potentially toxic in lettuce, but I'm sure there's something.

Nutmeg is mildly hallucinogenic taken in large enough quantities, I believe. 'Large enough' in that context though is something like an ounce of nutmeg, which will also cause nausea and vomiting.

Dunno about lettuce

I always presumed that it would be okay to drink one or two glasses of wine once the baby was asleep and could be relied upon to sleep for a few hours. The amount of alcohol in breast milk must be negligible if you do that.
I'm not too sure that drinking several glasses in the day while breastfeeding would be okay though.

Lettuce contains manganese, which taken in (very, obvs) high quantities can cause something called "manganese madness", featuring hallucinations, tremors, and extreme mood swings.

Really you should just give up all lettuce while breastfeeding. It's not worth the risk. And if you can't enjoy yourself without a lettuce or two, maybe you need to seek help for your lettuce addiction. Think of your baby, you selfish lettuce-nibbling cow.

"'I'm not too sure that drinking several glasses in the day while breastfeeding would be okay though."

But the amount of alcohol in your milk after a few glasses of wine is about the same as the alcohol content of yogurt. You don't see people going around railing against the dangers of giving yogurt to weaned babies, do you? (IT'S FULL OF ALCOHOL! NO ALCOHOL LEVEL IS PROVEN SAFE!)

I'm not saying I'm all for women going on the total lash while breastfeeding, but, as above, it's more because it's not safe to be really pissed in charge of a baby rather than because of the risk from alcoholic milk.

Obviously if you have for some reason decided to let your baby mainline your milk rather than drink it, you may be in trouble...

*Perhaps those who argue that the NHS guidelines (occassional drinking only, don't binge drink etc) are incorrect could post links to the studies showing that higher levels of alcohol consumption are safe.

Penguin, I'd be interested especially in what evidence you based these statements on*

It's all available online, but I'm not going to research it for you! If you are interested, go look, I don;t have to prove anything on here, I know the science behind my remarks is solid, and if you go looking you'll find the same thing.

"'I'm not too sure that drinking several glasses in the day while breastfeeding would be okay though

It doesn't matter what you think about it, it IS okay. Cos, science; we don't need opinions when we have science!

I've been thinking this too. I enjoy a few drinks when bf, and fed my first till 13 months. Usually it was when I knew she wouldn't need a feed for a while. I imagine second time around I will be more relaxed about it.

The guidelines are indeed batshit imo although I can see the problem in the nhs giving alcohol the green light. Ethics of testing, other problems caused by alcohol abuse in families and so on.
I drink wine quite regularly. Of course my breastmilk is not alcoholic. As previous posters have pointed out, for alcohol to affect my milk so that it becomes more alcoholic than say apple juice, I'd need to have consumed lethal quantities. I'd be dead.
I didn't know a lot about breastfeeding before I did it so I guess it's not surprising that a lot of people don't know that it's never necessary to pump and dump etc.

Despite what Nestle try to tell us, a woman does not need an ideal diet to produce the ideal food for her baby.

I personally wouldn't breast feed and drink , I don't think it's right. Even if it is only a tiny amount that crosses to baby. Babies shouldn't have any alcohol

I too would look at you and think, dick. But I would keep it to myself of course. But that's what I'd think.

ven if it is only a tiny amount that crosses to baby. Babies shouldn't have any alcohol

So fruit juice and yoghurt are out, then?

But the amount of alcohol in your milk after a few glasses of wine is about the same as the alcohol content of yogurt. You don't see people going around railing against the dangers of giving yogurt to weaned babies, do you? (IT'S FULL OF ALCOHOL! NO ALCOHOL LEVEL IS PROVEN SAFE!)

If the amount is very low then it is obviously okay. Many sources state that levels in the breast milk would be similar to blood levels in the mother though so not negligible.

Many sources state that levels in the breast milk would be similar to blood levels in the mother though so not negligible.

Yes they would, though, because blood alcohol levels are very different from alcohol levels in drinks. 0.5% alcohol in wine, you can legally sell it as "dealcoholised wine" - 0.5% alcohol level in your blood, you'd be dead.

"Yes they would, though, because blood alcohol levels are very different from alcohol levels in drinks. 0.5% alcohol in wine, you can legally sell it as "dealcoholised wine" - 0.5% alcohol level in your blood, you'd be dead."

Exactly. As I said above, the baby is going to be drinking it, not injecting it.

Pretty sure this has been posted above, but here's the article where the woman actually measured the alcohol level of her milk (SPOILER ALERT: it's not very alcoholic): babyandbump.momtastic.com/breastfeeding/2015181-alcohol-breastmilk-reposted-dr-jack-newmans-fb-page.html

Many sources state that levels in the breast milk would be similar to blood levels in the mother though so not negligible

It is negligable though. Even after many drinks the level of alcohol in your milk would be less than in some fruit juices. You'd give organic apple juice to your baby, which could have several times the amount of alcohol than breast milk after a few glasses of wine.

It isn't the case that we don't know if its ok, or we don't know what level is safe. We do know. It's basic biology and maths! People have confused drinking while feeding with drinking while pregnant, the two are completely different.

I expressed when my son was in nicu, I asked after a traumatic week if I could have a glass of wine, pediatrician said quote "yes a few glasses is fine, just don't get really pissed"

I too would look at you and think, dick. But I would keep it to myself of course. But that's what I'd think.

See it's people like you who prove my point I think, loads of people have posted info about the alcohol levels of breastmilk being the same as an orange juice after a few glass of wine but you'll continue to think a drinking breastfeeding mother is a dick. Nice. My conclusion would be that you, and people like you, enjoy judging people a little bit, maybe it gets you a bit excited to do a smug little disapproving tut in your head? And that's fine, but it doesn't make you right, just so you know.

One of my favourite moments on an online BF group (which had its own issues, but how and ever) was when a woman came on filled with righteous indignation about THE POOR INNOCENT BABIES BEING FED ALCOHOLIC MILK BY THEIR SELFISH MOTHERS AND CAN'T WE NAICE BF MUMMIES CAMPAIGN TO HAVE IT MADE ILLEGAL. Got her arse handed to her.

I too would look at you and think, dick. But I would keep it to myself of course. But that's what I'd think

Well, since the person drinking and feeding was doing nothing at all harmful to anyone, and you were judging on the basis of your own, completely wrong assumptions, there would only be one dick in that scenario. (HInt, its you. Dick)

well, I can see what benefit a glass of orange juice has on your health, but I fail to see what the benefits of an entire bottle of prosecco are.

I love how the thread has now turned against mums who are being careful about their diet whilst breastfeeding. You can find so called studies and researches online proving anything and everything, so if that makes you feel better, why not.

Last I looked, the guidelines were exactly the same as "normal" ie non pregnant guidelines. If they are, that is fair, as that is what it should be. Binge drinking is unhealthy whether you are BF or not. If they are more strict then that is because the NHS is supposed to give evidence based advice.

I think that laypeople often don't know and just assume it's the same as pregnancy, or they think that the alcohol is just streaming straight out of your breasts which isn't true.

Breastmilk alcohol level is about a 1:1 with blood alcohol level, which means that it's very very low as that blood content is given as food. It's not the same as drinking in pregnancy when you're effectively sharing your blood content with the baby's blood content.

well, I can see what benefit a glass of orange juice has on your health, but I fail to see what the benefits of an entire bottle of prosecco are.

We're going around in circles here, we're not talking about MY health, unless you still think a glass of prosecco for me means a glass of prosecco for the baby? Are you just not understanding the evidence posted?