to think the current NHS guidelines for alcohol and breastfeeding are batshit and not conducive to long term breastfeeding

[lemonadey]

I was at a wedding on Saturday, I took 6m old dd but me and dh decided he would be the one "on shift" and I would have a few drinks as its been a while (dd is a bottle refuser) over the course of the day I drank quite a few glasses of prosecco (I didn't count but by the end of the day it probably amounted to about a bottle) but obviously still bf dd at points and I got pretty fed up of the amount of people quite openly shocked at me breastfeeding and drinking. I do get it, the nhs guidelines are basically the same as if you're pregnant even though the way alcohol transfers to the baby is completely different and the amount of alcohol that enters your breastmilk is negligible.

I just feel it is another way for women to feel like their life is "on hold" while breastfeeding, my mum breastfed me and said she never gave a second thought to what she ate or drank and it was a really enjoyable experience for her, it was part of her life, she never expressed or "pumped and dumped".

I wish more women realised you can still have a social life that includes drinking whilst breastfeeding, the current guidelines are so ridiculously strict and just result in judging from other people and unnecessary guilt for mum.

So tell me, AIBU??

So you don't drink. Thats's lovely for you. What possible reason is there why the rest of can't drink when and what we want to? We could all manage to live without chocolate, or sex, or Netflix, or any other thing you can think of, but we have things in our lives because we like them and we want to!

I honestly don't give a flying feck about what you want to do or not. Your life, your choices, have them. We are discussing a combo of breastfeeding + alcohol in here and the evidence suggests that alcohol gets into the breastmilk, hence my question. Other than that I honestly don't care if someone decides to pickle themselves in booze, shows her tits or gives guys blow jobs for a coctail in a Magaluf bar. Staying off booze for a very short period of time in someone's life isn't such a big problem but hey, if you decide to drink and breastfeed your baby, go on. your child, your choice.

Well the only way to get pregnancy drinking guidelines based on science is to have a massive RCT. Sign a few thousand women up. Give some 2 units of alcohol a week, some 5 units a week, some 10 units a week, some 15 units a week, all through their pregnancy.

Then assess the babies at birth for signs of FAS, monitor the infants for at least ten years. Looking at milestones reached, IQ.

So who wants to volunteer for that study? Can't see it getting past an ethics comittee to be honest.

Sorry, duh. Just realised it was breastfeeding not pregnancy. I got side tracked by some comments mid thread!

Thing is though, if you're not a big drinker you're not really going to understand why it might be hard.

If breastfeeding foodies were told it'd be best for them to live off protein shakes and vitamin pills whilst breastfeeding, because normal food might effect their milk and might effect their babies - and got judgy looks every time they thought "sod this, I'm having a sandwich - you'd probably find most of them wouldn't manage to breastfeed for long. Likewise if bookworms were told they'd best lay off reading for pleasure, or music lovers asked to refrain from listening to music. Yes, life is perfectly possibly under those conditions, and yes, you can still have fun - but it sucks some of the pleasure out of your life, and you're probably not going to want to do it for long.

But as I say, if you're not someone who likes a drink - and there is a difference between liking a drink and wanting to get drunk - you're not going to understand that.

We are discussing a combo of breastfeeding + alcohol in here and the evidence suggests that alcohol gets into the breastmilk, hence my question. Other than that I honestly don't care if someone decides to pickle themselves in booze, shows her tits or gives guys blow jobs for a coctail in a Magaluf bar. Staying off booze for a very short period of time in someone's life isn't such a big problem but hey, if you decide to drink and breastfeed your baby, go on. your child, your choice.

NO, you are judging based on your opinion, which is wrong. HAve you not read the thread or are the sciency bits just too difficult for you? There is no need to abstain from alcohol if you are breastfeeding. It makes no difference if you do or you don't. This is not opinion, this is fact.

Moderate drinking is actually correlated with higher IQ's. You can certainly understand that from some of the comments here. Have a drink and read it all again, you might understand something.

I read the thread. Sciency bits are also those I linked. Which say that yes, booze gets into breastmilk.

Moderate drinking is actually correlated with higher IQ's. You can certainly understand that from some of the comments here. Have a drink and read it all again, you might understand something.

If you are so obsessed with drinking that you need to have booze in your blood to think clearly, it's fine. Not my case though. Or maybe you are just a goady troll and try to start a flamewar, sorry, better things to do.

None. No impact. RTFT.

I have RTFT and posted several times. I am still not convinced that alcohol whilst breastfeeding has zero effect. We can't know for sure seeing as it would be unethical to carry out detailed research with control groups on infants whose mothers drink alcohol. knowing that alcohol alters the smell and taste of breastmilk and some babies drink less after the mother has consumed alcohol just leads me to think that more than a teeny tiny amount gets through the breastmilk.
At the end of the day though I will do what I feel comfortable with and other breastfeeding mums can do what suits them.

I am still not convinced that alcohol whilst breastfeeding has zero effect. We can't know for sure seeing as it would be unethical to carry out detailed research with control groups on infants whose mothers drink alcohol

Wrong again. There ARE lots of studies where breastfeeding women were given alcohol and then the effects tested and observed. And they all passed ethics approval: because the people approving them know there is no danger!
It doesn't matter if you are convinced or not, in the same way you could tell me you are unconvinced that the sun will rise tomorrow. The sun will rise, there is no detrimental effect, and your opinion on that is irrelevant.

I read the thread. Sciency bits are also those I linked. Which say that yes, booze gets into breastmilk

But you missed the bit where it gets in in TINY TINY amounts, too small to be clinically relevant?

It's painful talking to some of you, really it is. Obtuse doesn't cover it.

Your just being rude now penguin and I don't see that it is necessary

Only in response to others being rude, and judgy to boot. If they don't want it back, they shouldn't hand it out.

I don't think my question about allergens was rude or judgy, I was merely asking a question but you responded by telling me to RTFT.

I've been going off the guidelines that alcohol enters and leaves breastmilk like it does blood.
So if your having a drink and baby can wait the 1/1.5hrs it could take to leave your milk then, top! If baby can't wait, with moderate drinking anyway, there is such a small amount in milk they will be fine.

I've been having the odd drink and not worrying following this advice.

AndTakeYourPenguinWithYou sorry, I can't help it but I just have this vivid image of you hopping in your chair like a female version of Father Jack shouting Drink! Drink! Drink!.
Have it on us

Penguin, several of the studies linked to in this thread show that alcohol passes into breastmilk and affects a breastfed baby. The ways in which a baby is affected may be mild - eg changes in sleeping patterns, changes in feeding behaviour and changes in the smell of breastmilk - but they are real and well documented.

Instead of insisting "it makes no difference" whether a breastfeeding mum drinks alcohol, why don't we acknowledge that it does affect the baby and then leave it up to individual women to make the choice that they feel is right for them and their baby.

Yes to everything knits said. You put it much better than I tried to earlier.

I've been BFing or pregnant 7 years (not all the same child!) and I have certainly had a few drinks in that time (not while pregnant).

Anecdotally I've heard of several women saying being able to have a good night out (i.e. drink again) is one reason for giving up BF.

I'd be interested to know on balance which is better for a child. Extended BF while drinking occasionally, and moderately, with meals. Or not BFing.

I strongly suspect it's the first.

In fact I remember an acquaintance going on at me when my DS was only 5 months saying "come on, it's time to give BFing up now, you need to get your body back and go on a proper night out".

I smiled and nodded and fed him till he was a (big) toddler.

Penguin I think I love you

For the record, during and after my prosecco bender my baby fed and acted as normal and was up bright as a button at 5.45am as usual.

knits I wonder how much ifvthatvis due to taste rather than the effects of alcohol per se.

Having breastfed a lot, I know that my milk is affected very much taste wise by what I eat. It makes sense it would be. Some of my babies have loathed garlic, for example.

That doesn't mean that the alcohol itself is the issue.

There was a fab article I read last year by an American women who paid privately to test her milk for alcohol levels at certain points after consuming wine.

It was amazing how little of the alcohol actually got through.

Of course the best time to have a glass of wine is probably as you breastfeed. Cheers!

*Instead of insisting "it makes no difference" whether a breastfeeding mum drinks alcohol, why don't we acknowledge that it does affect the baby and then leave it up to individual women to make the choice that they feel is right for them and their baby.
*

How about we don't? Since the studies that do suggest any detrimental effect have either been debunked, or the findings have not been repeated in subsequent testing?

We can't acknowledge nonsense just because it happens to fit your opinion.

Anyway, I'm off for a couple of pints. On my return I will feed my dd, feeling secure in the knowledge that she will be just fine.
Judge all you like, I care not a jot. I'm only representing truth here, it makes no difference to me personally what anyone thinks

I didn't drink when pg at all and didn't have much when bf (as I couldn't bear the hangover) but all the research I read made it seem safe to me, as long as not too drunk to look after the lo. I fed for five years in total so not a short part of my life. Even my HV said it was ok, though she did believe you should "pump and dump" which is nonsense.

How about we don't? Since the studies that do suggest any detrimental effect have either been debunked, or the findings have not been repeated in subsequent testing?

Breastmilk smelling or tasting unpleasant to a baby is hardly detrimental but still not something o want to risk if it means my baby might go hungrier than usual and be wakeful as a result. It's only a minor temporary effect but still an effect.
As it happens DH just popped his head around the door to see if baby had taken his night feed yet and of I wanted a glass of wine. Baby isn't asleep yet so I will hang on for another half hour during which I will feed baby and he will go down for about 6 hours and I will enjoy my wine.

rooner, it makes sense that changes in the taste of breastmilk would affect a baby's feeding pattern, though I can't see how this would account for the changes to mum's milk supply or the baby's sleep pattern.

Penguin, I listed ways in which babies are affected by the presence of alcohol in breastmilk. All of these are documented in the studies that you and others have linked to on this thread. They're not nonsense, they're documented findings of research. It kind of feels like you're accusing me of the very thing you're doing, namely ignoring evidence because it doesn't fit with your opinion.

Enjoy your drinks. No judgement at all from me. As I said before, I think it's up to each individual to look at the evidence and make the right choice for them.