to think the current NHS guidelines for alcohol and breastfeeding are batshit and not conducive to long term breastfeeding

[lemonadey]

I was at a wedding on Saturday, I took 6m old dd but me and dh decided he would be the one "on shift" and I would have a few drinks as its been a while (dd is a bottle refuser) over the course of the day I drank quite a few glasses of prosecco (I didn't count but by the end of the day it probably amounted to about a bottle) but obviously still bf dd at points and I got pretty fed up of the amount of people quite openly shocked at me breastfeeding and drinking. I do get it, the nhs guidelines are basically the same as if you're pregnant even though the way alcohol transfers to the baby is completely different and the amount of alcohol that enters your breastmilk is negligible.

I just feel it is another way for women to feel like their life is "on hold" while breastfeeding, my mum breastfed me and said she never gave a second thought to what she ate or drank and it was a really enjoyable experience for her, it was part of her life, she never expressed or "pumped and dumped".

I wish more women realised you can still have a social life that includes drinking whilst breastfeeding, the current guidelines are so ridiculously strict and just result in judging from other people and unnecessary guilt for mum.

So tell me, AIBU??

Right firstly to back up my next statement....I've spent fifteen years working as a specialist in addiction.... This includes managing multi million budgeted areas with literally thousands of clients so please believe me when I say....

There's nothing whatsoever in the op to indicate an alcohol problem.....it's absolutely silly , short sighted and judgemental to suggest a woman who feels restricted when being judged for having a drink when medical professionals assert its safe, that she has an alcohol problem

Please understand it's not on to bandy that concept around unless you understand what a real addict has to go through, so enough with the bosom hoiking.....I'm sure pseudo science will show excessive bosom hoiking leads to increased sagging....

So those who for no bloody reason at a breast feeding drinker need to deal with their own stuff frankly, I didn't drink with ds 2 .... But frankly that's because we both nearly died during his birth but that was about my issues and I never judged anyone else

All my midwives (of which there were many due to OC , diabetes etc) maintained moderate drinking was fine

Excessive drinking with a young child is wrong anyway....has anyone ever tried to watch baby Einstein DVDs or change a nappy with a hangover? Shudder good god no....just not worth it

"For breastfeeding to be sustainable long term, it has to fit with a reasonably enjoyable life which for many people includes a bit of alcohol"

^THIS

Having looked at the NHS guidelines and the La Leche ones I would say La Leche are a lot stricter/forcefully put!

www.nhs.uk/Conditions/pregnancy-and-baby/Pages/breastfeeding-alcohol.aspx

www.laleche.org.uk/alcohol-and-breastfeeding/

1-2 units a day seems fair. Our NCT breastfeeding counsellor advised drinking just before a feed or just as one has been done, to maximise the time to reduce the alcohol in the bloodstream.

1-2 units a day seems fair. Our NCT breastfeeding counsellor advised drinking just before a feed or just as one has been done, to maximise the time to reduce the alcohol in the bloodstream

Again, it doesn't matter what seems fair, and it doesn't matter what la leche league say. We don't need opinions or guesswork, we have Science. Which tells us that LLL are talking out of their arse.

I'm glad I came to my own scientific analysis which was that drinking a large glass of red when starting to nurse either of my sons' was an excellent choice.

As long as I kept up a steady glug, they would be finished their feed before the alcohol would even be in my system, then they would have another feed a few hours later, by which point the previous glass of wine would have already been metabolised and I could settle down and have another. And so on and so forth.

There's a lot to be said for ignoring guidelines.

OP I couldn't agree with you more, (or the other sensible people on this thread). We're probably speaking so much sense because of the alcohol.

I went with the if you're safe enough to drive you're safe to feed theory. If I drank more once DS was in bed and he woke in the night I'd do some quick maths and if worried gave him a bottle of formula.

But OP I think you're right and I wouldn't have tutted at you. I'd probably have asked if you wanted a top-up. Prosecco isn't v strong anyway

I think there is a feeling among some women that BF is restrictive; several of the women in my antenatal group have switched to FF, and all have expressed feeling relieved to get 'back to normal'. I think that perceiving breastfeeding as a special state, similar to pregnancy, with restrictions on what you can eat, wear, drink and do, adds to the pressure on women at a very challenging time in their lives, and it's not conducive to long term breastfeeding.

On a personal level, I hope to continue breastfeeding DD for at least her first year, and for me that will mean having one or two drinks once or twice a week. I don't drink to get drunk, but a beer or a G&T in the evening is enjoyable and helps me relax, and will not result in significant amounts of alcohol passing through the milk.

penguin I don't mean this rudely but really there is no magic to "science" and it's a ever changing feast.

For breastfeeding rates to increase, especially longer term breastfeeding, my feeling is that we need to normalise it.

I had a glass of wine a week when pregnant and I drink at least a glass of wine a week whilst breastfeeding. I really don't care what the ever changing official advice says. It is about judgement and common sense.

When people talk about getting back to normal as a reason to give up breastfeeding I would have thought that being able to go out and socialise without baby is a more significant factor than being able to drink lots of alcohol. It is quite difficult to go out without baby for more than a few hours if baby is ebf and feeding regularly as many ebf babies refuse bottles.

I too would look at you and think, dick. But I would keep it to myself of course. But that's what I'd think

And a lot of people will think that you are a dick for being pious and judgy.

Agree wholeheartedly rooner

I'm a light, occasional drinker who didn't change my drinking habits during bf OR pregnancy.

The problem with giving guidelines is that it would be irresponsible and unethical to set an alcohol limit that might do harm. But at the same time, the UK's problem drinking culture makes it impossible to not set guidelines. So you end up with ridiculous limits that aren't based on science.

The other issue is that the levels of caution required when bf a newborn are certainly different compared to bf an older baby, but unfortunately the advice tends to be one size fits all.

loobrush I don't disagree. I have had two bottle refusing blighters myself. But they are more adaptable than people realise as they get older.

If I go out, and I miss the bedtime feed, I just feed at 11pm instead

I am working part time and in the days I'm not working, I do an extra feed in the afternoon. On the days I am working, I skip it.

It's an amazing system. My baby is only 15 months and I don't generally mention I'm still breastfeeding because the reaction is "oh for goodness sake, you need to stop that".

But I don't really and, back to the OP's post, I live a normal life whilst doing it.

On any thread relating to drinking/not drinking (not just referring to breastfeeding) you always get people saying things along the lines that anyone who cannot go without a drink must have issues with alcohol/are boring/have dull lives etc etc. What nonsense! I can only think people who make these comments have either never drunk or are noble ex-drinkers. I can totally see where you're coming from OP and certainly don't think you have a problem.

I didn't give up alcohol when breastfeeding, didn't occur to me not to. If, however, I knew I was going to have more than a couple, I would express which doesn't appear to be an option for you at the moment. However, it hardly sounds like you are getting shitfaced on a regular basis so I would enjoy your wine and ignore the judgers! I never felt judged btw but guess my friends and family are like minded.

penguin I don't mean this rudely but really there is no magic to "science" and it's a ever changing feast

Thanks for the info, in my years as a scientist I have noticed the changeable nature of it. And actually I disagree, there is an element of magic in it (especially since magic is just another kind of science anyway!)

I really don't care what the ever changing official advice says. It is about judgement and common sense

The official advice is more about politics than it is about science, or medicine. It is about judgement, but you need to have facts to base your judgement on. As we can see here, what lots of people think is common sense (there are assertions that its obviously common sense that you shouldn't drink while breastfeeding) is completely wrong.
Not all opinions are equal. For example, mine, based on solid research and a large bank of data, is of more use and worth than that of someone who has just decided for themselves that it feels wrong to them therefore it must be so.

Yes they would, though, because blood alcohol levels are very different from alcohol levels in drinks. 0.5% alcohol in wine, you can legally sell it as "dealcoholised wine" - 0.5% alcohol level in your blood, you'd be dead.

0.5% alcohol is obviously negligible for an adult but not necessarily for a small baby. I agree that it is not necessary to stop drinking altogether when breast feeding but it would seem sensible to avoid drinking a lot (i.e. several glasses of wine) during the day.

0.5% alcohol is obviously negligible for an adult but not necessarily for a small baby

Didn't you understand the bit that said "you'd be dead"? You can't drink enough to feed the baby 0.5% milk without actually being DEAD. If you were to drink four glasses of wine and then feed when your milk was at peak concentration for alcohol, your baby would have (very roughly) a blood alcohol content of 0.004%.

it would seem sensible to avoid drinking a lot (i.e. several glasses of wine) during the day

This is exactly what I am talking about: it might SEEM sensible to you (and if its what makes you comfortable, thats all good for you) but there is no basis in fact to claim this. One glass, several glasses, it really makes no difference at all to the child being fed, since the level are so tiny either way. Essentially you're talking the difference between one shot of tequila or ten shots of tequila: if the mixer is the size of a swimming pool. It's irrelevant.

Mary, did you not read the part where the poster stated that 0.5% blood alcohol level results in death? No baby is going to be drinking milk which is 0.5% alcohol. At most they're likely to be getting 0.1 or perhaps 0.2%. Unless somebody is an alcoholic, that's likely to be occasionally. Realistically a glass or two of wine is metabolised so quickly that the levels are well below 0.1% and are more like 0.05% and lower.

It is of course dangerous for somebody to be drinking consistently high levels of alcohol - say a bottle of vodka a day - and caring for a baby. BFing is just part of that danger though I believe that it would have an effect to be consistently slightly drunk.

"0.5% alcohol is obviously negligible for an adult but not necessarily for a small baby. "

Yes, except a baby would never get that level of alcohol in breastmilk because, as per the post you quoted, if the milk was that alcoholic the mother would not just be too drunk to feed, she would have died of alcohol poisoning. As mentioned in many, many previous posts, the level of alcohol in breastmilk after a woman has had "several glasses of wine" is lower than that in some common foods that nobody would dream of restricting from children because of their alcohol content. Yoghurt, for instance.

I do think people are just reading what they want to read - they have it in their heads that drinking when breastfeeding is WRONG and SELF-INDULGENT and RISKY and IT'S JUST COMMON SENSE ISN'T IT, and no manner of actual facts will get in the way.

To contrast, Gripe water until the 1990s was 3.6% alcohol. Clearly the formula was changed for a reason, but people gave that to babies all the time, and whisky was a common remedy for teething. While I wouldn't recommend either practice, it's clearly not THAT dangerous if whole generations of people used to use it with no obvious effects.

"Realistically a glass or two of wine is metabolised so quickly that the levels are well below 0.1% and are more like 0.05% and lower."

Yup, a bit lower. Per this article: babyandbump.momtastic.com/breastfeeding/2015181-alcohol-breastmilk-reposted-dr-jack-newmans-fb-page.html

"The sample labeled as 'immediate' registered as 0.1370 mg/mL which correlates to 0.01370% alcohol in the sample. The sample labeled '2 hours' registered as 0.0000 mg/ml which correlates to 0.0000%. The sample labeled '1 hour - 3 drinks' registered as 0.3749 mg/mL which correlates to 0.03749% alcohol in the sample. The sample labeled '2 hours - 3 drinks' registered as 0.0629 mg/mL which correlates to 0.00629% alcohol in the sample."

(the "three drinks" were two glasses of wine and a small beer)

Damn, no wonder gripe water worked back then!

Generations of us grew up drinking gripe water, that is an excellent point. Which was hundreds of times more alcoholic than the breastmilk of a frankly rat-arsed mother!

Not RTFT but of course not drinking alcohol is not putting your life on hold. But it's a nice thing to do, especially a glass of bubbly. And having a few glasses at a wedding is not going to hurt your baby. Drinking that much every day might. As a one-off? No.

I get fed up of people saying "I gave up drinking 20 years ago and don't know myself". If it made that much difference to you, you were drinking (far) too much. Many of us drink alcohol in moderation - eg 2-3 glasses of wine a week and find we can function perfectly well.