To feel totally ignorant about racism

[IcingandSlicing]

In that topic the other day I've learned that I am totally ignorant about racism. I had no idea that comments about hair for example that could be totally not ill meant could strike such a deep chord among other people
Or is it the comment itself or the way it was made - by the tone of voice etc nonverbal information you get from people - that makes it racist?
Or just some comments people make regarding kids like cheeky monkey for epinstance (there are tees with this) could be seen as racist?
I'm at a lost to be honest.
I've probably offended many people without even knowing about it.
I'd assume that in 2016 people would feel equal no matter how they look and not take offense from random comments.
Aibu to think that I'd better keep away from black people in case I'd say something that would offend them? (I mean I can say whatever negative thing I want about blond haired people, red haired people, black haired people, people who colour their hair, people who don't colour their hair, people who have thin hair, people who have thick hair, etc, but I feel like with black people it's likely to strike a deeper chord than ever intended and I am ignorant enough not to understand the history behid that makes it worse.)
And sorry about that I really don't mean to offend. Just to understand.

[Out2pasture]

now can any mix of Caucasian people (say redhead and Italian) ever consider questions about their coloring to be equal to racism?
is racism not specific to different races and some discrimination then falls into the category of religious discrimination (thinking someone with a jewish or muslim name would be non Christian on a job application)?
Do Asians have the same level of discrimination as blacks?

[Atenco]

I am a blonde living in Mexico and though most of the racism here is "in my favour", I get driven up the wall by the same questions over and over again, like the ones that rock listed earlier on, but at least I am actually a foreigner. When I was pregnant I dreaded my child coming out looking like me because that child would be Mexican and always treated as a foreigner in their own country, which is so cruel.

[Janecc]

In answer to the question regarding "cheeky monkey" upthread. I don't think calling someone a cheeky monkey is definitely and always meant to be racist. The riding school teacher is an example of it being meant as a term of endearment and there are soooo many better terms. She saw my child twice a month for an hour and was using it to "gently chide" the children. Derogatory descriptives whether they be cheeky monkey or something else have no place under these circumstances. I especially don't want my DD learning and using the term "cheeky monkey" in relation to other people and one day causing massive offence to a friend. So when I heard myself saying it yes, it was time to go - it concretised my growing resentment to the woman. Right now DD she has no idea of the way language is used to demean others. So if DD called the dog for example a cheeky monkey I wouldn't encourage it either because I'm assuming dogs have never been likened to monkeys by racist bigots. I don't know what I'd say though.

[Dawndonnaagain]

I strongly suggest Fluffy that before you post on an internet forum and make a complete and utter fool of yourself, you try a history class or two, i.e. get yourself an education.
Oh, too late...

[Kasalina24]

FluffyPineapple- you know nuttin' so just shut up

[RebeccaMumsnet]

Hi all,

Thanks for the report Baconyum and apologies for not removing the post faster. We were busy this morning and sadly, when i read the initial report, I didn't spend enough time on it. My mistake, apologies.

We have removed that post now as it contained a personal attack, can we please remind everyone that personal attacks are against the Talk guidelines

[Baconyum]

Thank you Rebecca

[BeverlyGoldberg]

Rebecca, any news on the report I made about the threat that was made to me?

[FluffyPineapple]

I know exactly what white supremacy is thank you very much. MY DH is black. My children are mixed race. We have had many racist comments thrown our way. The term "Cheeky Monkey", when used as a term of endearment, toward a young child is NOT racist!

[BIWI]

It is.

How many more times do you have to be told that it is?

[FluffyPineapple]

Racist comments are used to discriminate, belittle or generally make a person feel bad about his or her race or culture. The term "Cheeky Monkey" cannot be seen a racist comment as no race, culture or inoffensive words are apparent. Any child could be referred to as a "Cheeky Monkey" regardless of ethniticity. A term of endearment is totally at odds with any terms used solely to discriminate. White supremacy is rife. However, racist comments can be made by anyone towards anybody whose race differs from their own, whose sole aim of the comment is to hurt, belittle or offend SOLELY BECAUSE OF THEIR RACE! What you are talking about with your reference to monkey noises between football players and adults - whose aim is to make racial differences in a derogatory manner is a totally different concept. The monkey gestures in that scenario are definitely not meant to be a terms of endearment and a far cry from a term of endearment towards a young child.

[Hexor]

It's 2016, the time where people get offended and butt hurt over anything they can find to feed off of attention, you're most likely not racist at all, just that this whole PC thing has ruined this generation with being too fragile when it comes to words

[quencher]

It's 2016, the time where people get offended and butt hurt over anything they can find to feed off of attention, you're most likely not racist at all, just that this whole PC thing has ruined this generation with being too fragile when it comes to words

Fragile, my left foot.
Wishing for the good old days when you could say whatever you wanted to offend without a comeback, right? The offended should know their place shut up and put up with it, right ?

People who tend to complain about PC gone mad in terms of free speech are usually those that forget that free speech used to exist from the lens of one race and one gender. Or they support the fact that they used to say whatever they wanted without repercussions.
The good old days

[Errata]

It's 2016, the time where people get offended and butt hurt over anything they can find to feed off of attention, you're most likely not racist at all, just that this whole PC thing has ruined this generation with being too fragile when it comes to words

Who's 'this generation'? BAME people who might in 2016 expect not to have racist language applied to them? Or this generation of non-BAME people who, one would like to think, have never considered that language acceptable?

Or is what you actually mean 'I get to use terms I have repeatedly been told are racist because everyone else is TOO FRAGILE/WRONG because they've been weaned on a diet of PC language, rather than the proper way, which is clearly to roll with the punches, sticks and stones will break my bones etc etc'?

Why on earth would you think anyone wants the kind of 'attention' associated with being the victim of racist language or actions? And what exactly would be wrong with BAME people being hurt or offended by being subjected to it, or with non-BAME people being careful not to use racial slurs? It's hardly a gag. If the kind of minimally thoughtful use of language that gets castigated as 'PC gorn mad' by a certain kind of DM reader really bothers you that much, I can't imagine what it is you want to say and can't!

[gingergenie]

Ah, hexor - the same person on another thread who said that a boy being bullied should effectively just man up and punch back because it's just a part of growing up. Nice attitude.

[UmbongoUnchained]

errata what does BAME mean?

[drspouse]

There's this new invention called Google. Perhaps you've heard of it?

[UmbongoUnchained]

Sorry was just trying to join a conversation that interested me. I'll fuck off then. 🖕🏻

[BertrandRussell]

Black Asian and Minority Ethnic.

[gingergenie]

That was a bit uncalled for drspouse. umbongo it means Black, Asian, Minority Ethnic.

[TheSolitaryBoojum]

How rude!
BAME = Black, Asian, Minority Ethnic

Yes, I've heard of google. But why so unpleasant about a simple question?

[UmbongoUnchained]

Thankyou

[Janecc]

Oh yes, hexor I saw that post too. Really? I'm white and I'd rather be careful and not offend anyone.. Well I actually mean everyone. It's a shame you seem to be taking the opposite stance.

[Branleuse]

its one thing to realise that youve said dodgy things in the past through ignorance, but its another thing entirely to carry on once you know


Some things have more political significance because of race. touching someones afro hair as though its public property or a circus act when you wouldnt touch someones blonde or red hair is not ok, but not everyones going to hate you for it if youve done it because you used to be a bit of a twat before you knew

[IPityThePontipines]

This thread is genuinely a breath of (mostly) fresh air.

There seems to be a general agreement on MN that sexism/misogyny is a very real problem and that women are more aware of it then men. Fair enough.

Whereas you read on here all the time, white posters firmly declaring that racism isn't a thing now, just pc gorn mad and that if it does happen, it gets treated more seriously than sexism.

It's a massive double standard.