To think that the options for elderly people are shocking

[Roseberrry]

My grandma lives on her own but is slowly going blind, her body is gradually getting older and she's finding it harder and harder to live independently.

We started to look at options for moving her closer to me, I was shocked! Assisted living in our area consisted of a small 1-2 bedroom flat starting at £172k, you also have to pay 'rent' on top of that for the upkeep of the building.

The other option is that she sells her home to move in to a care home. Her adult children will miss out on inheritance and she will be paying £££ to live in a small room, not even allowed to shower alone in a lot of them.

Or she can carry on living alone and struggling. God knows what the choices will be like by the time I'm at that age but it's not looking good.

My mother was upset by the fact that she had to pay huge amounts from their joint savings to keep him there, in addition to the home taking his pension, when the vast majority of the residents were getting free care, including one of her relatives, who had spent her life going on numerous expensive holidays, helping her children financially and generally living it up to the point of having no assets when she needed care.

I think this is what grates with a lot of people. Those who save their whole lives have to fund their own care (okay, fair enough), but those who don't save (and I appreciate that many never earn enough to save, but there are many others that do and choose not to), get their fees paid by the council. It really is a disincentive for people to save, buy their own home, have something 'put by', if they know the council is going to take it all. Whereas if they'd spent the lot during their lifetimes they'd get it all for free.

OP - you've had your arse handed to you a bit here. If you come back, there are other options.

She could:

• rent out her home, renting somewhere smaller and more suitable for her now, using the difference to pay for carers to come in
• rent out her home, move into her adult DC's home to be cared for, use the rent income for a lot of help and pay for any alterations needed to the adult child's home.
• sell her home, buy an assisted flat, but then still own that so when she dies, leave that flat to her adult DCs.
• rent out her home, investigate if there's any assisted flats to rent. Still retain ownership of the house.

It seems you think she should be able to move into an assisted flat or care home for free, then leave her house empty. This could be several years of her house sitting empty. That is impractal and in areas with housing issues, rather immoral when it could be rented out and become someone else's home - in that case, why should being elderly mean you get to be housed for free by the state, when you own a house elsewhere? Why shouldn't she have to use that income for rent?

Inheritance is an outmoded idea in the current modern world - I'm certainly not expecting to get anything, all my parents savings and assets will be going on them enjoying themselves and then funding care if they get to point where they need it, and that's fine by me, they earned it!

My grandfather self funds in a care home.

Because of this we were able to get him a place in the home he wanted.

He gets everything he needs and more. Yes his estate is diminishing but he worked, scrimped and saved for his old age.

Buying the care also makes our lives easier - we have options! When he was at home he got cook! Meals as he preferred them to the local authority provided ones. Costmorebut he had the money to pay so we spent it.

Why doesn't the family step in and look after her? At this point it seems rather selfish to be thinking of inheritance when it is their money. If you don't want to or can't care for them.then at least don't begrudge their money on their own care.

BlueJug - I would not call you greedy at all. But my experience of seeing an older person in a care home being financially abused, is that it was their adult child who did very little, who took the money. The relatives who were actually visiting and who had provided lots of practical help before she went into a home, did not do this.

It's always the families who don't bother or do anything for the relative that it's the first to complain. Blue jug where did you get those figures from If your complaining about 5 years how much do you think it costed your DM and DF to look after and support you through to adulthood. I'm pretty sure it was more than 5-7k

Thank you cleaty.

The issues are complicated with elderly especially when dementia is involved.

There is without doubt financial abuse of elderly - and it is rife. There is also a lot of unfairness surrounding who pays for care. It didn't matter when people only lived for a few years with high levels of need but now it can be ten or fifteen years - and that is impossible to fund whoever does it.

For a long term view from the Telegraph Jan 2015:

Overall the basic cost of raising a child in the UK from birth to the age of 21 has increased to by 63 per cent since 2003, when the survey was first carried out, to £229,251 at present. It has risen by just under £2,000 in the last year alone, almost twice the current rate of inflation.

Yet families are desperate to seek there inherence despite this

There is also a lot of unfairness surrounding who pays for care. It didn't matter when people only lived for a few years with high levels of need but now it can be ten or fifteen years - and that is impossible to fund whoever does it.

The average worker's savings has to cover (among other things) the average cost of elderly care. There's no way around this mathematical reality.

Except that does not add up. It is fine if you only need care for a short while, but very few people could fund 15 years in a care home.
The reality is most people either die before they go into a care home, or only live there for a short while before dying. That can be self funded. But not people who manage to live a long time in spite of needing lots of care.

I have not RTFT - however as a family it was agreed that when the time came for Granny, to need care she would go into a home, which she did, it was fabulous, lovely carers, and a round the clock medical team.

It wasn't cheap but gave peace of mind for her family, and gave her a happy last 6 years of life. Her assets were liquidated, she was fairly well off, to pay for it and her children my DF and aunt agreed this was the appropriate thing to do. We all visited weekly - bring her anything she needed (usually 20 Silk Cut and sherry - it was the late 90s before anyone points out the smoking ban!), toiletries, clothes, chocolate etc.

Except that does not add up. It is fine if you only need care for a short while, but very few people could fund 15 years in a care home.

Obvious solution: insurance. Risk-sharing.

Insurance for some individuals would be very expensive. Most of my relatives seem to live with dementia for years, my premiums would be high. National insurance was based on the idea of insurance that spread the risk. It needed to increase in amount though to actually do this.

Of course I didn't begrudge MIL toiletries. I just think soap is a basic necessity, like toilet paper. (And I only use the cheapest I can find, I've never paid out for fancy stuff, so "institutional" soap wouldn't bother me)

I'm intrigued by the £25 pw allowance suggested. MIL had such an account and £25 would last a couple of months. She had no interest in beauticians or having her nails done even before she had dementia. All she really needed was haircuts. I think there was a tuck shop, but she didn't want to eat eg biscuits or chocolate, she'd forgotten what such things were.

If we'd paid in £25 pw for her, there would have been at least a couple of thousand in her account when she died

£25 would be most likely there state pension I would imagine. She may require having her toe nails cutting which is a service provided by a professional not care staff there is a charge for this and they do require to be done regularly . Forgotten what such things were? I hate this attitude about dementia. Why would you make that assumption? We have put many treats out and residents have fully enjoyed it dispite families stating they forgotten why such things were, where is the choice? We have taster sessions exploring and trying various foods and residents who have dementia have responded really well to sampling various cuisines. Taste doesn't go and they enjoy the small things in life surely?

Why would you make that assumption?

Because it wasn't an assumption. We would give her biscuits with her cup of tea, she just held them and looked at them. We'd show her how to eat them. We'd break off a piece and hold it to her lips.

I hate this attitude that all dementia patients are the same. My mother adored chocolate and was as excited with a treat as a small child would be. MIL just wasn't interested in food

Yes £25 is the element of the pension people in care still get. And it is supposed to cover toiletries, new clothes, hair cuts, snacks and drinks, and anything else like books and magazines.
When my gran was in a care home she enjoyed getting new clothes, and new books and a daily newspaper.

Also the £25 is the elderly persons money. Not yours. So if they don't spend it, fine. But they should still have access to it.

Clearly is spot on unfortunately it isn't always the case and this is when finacial abuse occurs.i don't think families even realise they are doing it half the time.