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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that the options for elderly people are shocking

120 replies

Roseberrry · 26/04/2016 12:43

My grandma lives on her own but is slowly going blind, her body is gradually getting older and she's finding it harder and harder to live independently.

We started to look at options for moving her closer to me, I was shocked! Assisted living in our area consisted of a small 1-2 bedroom flat starting at £172k, you also have to pay 'rent' on top of that for the upkeep of the building.

The other option is that she sells her home to move in to a care home. Her adult children will miss out on inheritance and she will be paying £££ to live in a small room, not even allowed to shower alone in a lot of them.

Or she can carry on living alone and struggling. God knows what the choices will be like by the time I'm at that age but it's not looking good.

OP posts:
cleaty · 27/04/2016 09:24

It makes sense Suzanne in a country that does not have much of a welfare state. Either family take on responsibility for caring for older people, or the state do. Anyone who needs care for longer than a few years, has to be very rich to be able to fund it themselves.

BalloonSlayer · 27/04/2016 09:44

In the not too distant past (ie back when the welfare state was established) what would happen is that an elderly person who became too frail or unwell to live on their own would move in with a son or daughter.

People don't want to, or can't, nurse their old Mum or Dad and have them living with them (and I can't say I blame them) so they lose their "inheritance" in the care home fees. If the elderly person has no money then the state will step in. It's a shame when the elderly person, like both my Mum and my Dad, have spent years relishing that they will have a "nice bit" to leave to their children, but there it is.

When my Dad was dying he needed to go into a care home for palliative care. (He was expected to die in hospital but took too long about it Hmm so had to move out. Fair enough - they needed the beds.) He was assessed as to whether he needed enough care for the care home to be funded by the NHS and it was decided that he didn't. Had he needed a drip or injections of painkillers then he would have had that funding. The penny dropped for me. He didn't get funding because the palliative care he needed could be done by a non-medical-professional - me! - so I could have had him home with me. If I wasn't able/prepared to do this, then the family would have to pay. I was fine with this, totally got it.

suzannecaravaggio · 27/04/2016 09:45

I'm glad I live in a modern country with a welfare state, not that there isn't a 'moral hazzard' problem
Seems that dementia rates are actually lower than predicted so maybe things won't pan out as badly as we are led to believe

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/19/drop-in-dementia-rates-suggests-disease-can-be-prevented-researchers-say#img-1

CocktailQueen · 27/04/2016 10:06

It's not just for dementia reasons that people have to go into care homes, though, suzanne - frailty, general health problems, etc. all play a part.

suzannecaravaggio · 27/04/2016 10:09

One could argue that care home fees have increased opportunistically to siphon value out of the property price bubble

BillyGoatGruff007 · 27/04/2016 10:14

suzanne - if you fall off your bike, do you move out of your home to live elsewhere permanently, all expenses paid ?
When your children were born, did you do the same ?
If you send your children to a boarding school, you pay.
People with diabetes and heart disease receive free medical treatment, but they don't get free, permanent accommodation with all living expenses paid.
It's not the medical care that is costing the elderly person who moves into a care home - it is the day to day living expenses which have to be paid for.
Rent/mortgage, council tax, utilities, staff salaries,

suzannecaravaggio · 27/04/2016 10:15

frailty, general health problems all play a part
Of course but if you read the article you will learn that the reduction in dementia is thought to be due to people, especially men, living healthier lives...this should also reduce general health problems in the elderly

suzannecaravaggio · 27/04/2016 10:19

Billygoat I a!m not saying that elder care ought or ought not to be state funded, rather I am alluding to this point made by a op:

Yesterday 18:26 Trills

There is an interesting discussion to be had about which services are free to everyone, which are means tested, and which are only available if you can pay.

I doubt the OP is interested in having that discussion though.

suzannecaravaggio · 27/04/2016 10:20

Made by a pp not op!

BillyGoatGruff007 · 27/04/2016 10:24

suzanne Smile

Tanith · 27/04/2016 10:35

We have the opposite problem. MIL has been "desperate to move" ever since I have known her and the house has been on the market many times only to be withdrawn, often when they have a buyer all lined up.

She expressed horror at the idea of her and her husband going into residential care. She only wanted a corner, she said, but she would love to watch our kids grow up, she could help, too (though I wan't holding my breath on that, given her track record Wink).

So we looked around for houses with annexes, even looked into building a granny annex in the garden. I kept sending her details, chatting to her but she was reluctant to commit.

Then I found out that she'd been accusing me of trying to profit from the house sale and take advantage of her - not DH, you note: just me.
My BIL and SIL were sufficiently alarmed to search for housing in their area to keep an eye on her.
I was absolutely furious, but not surprised: she has form so I should have been prepared Sad.

This time, though, I have finally had enough. She can go and live near BIL and SIL and they can cope with her interference and lies. Strangely, since the house has actually been sold now (hurrah!!) and they have had a taste of the reality, they seem much less keen - and MIL tells us about "bitch" SIL and "financially abusive" BIL Hmm
They are not at all, and I do feel guilty at letting them in for all this. However...

Not. My. Problem. Smile and if it shows signs of falling through this time, I shall drive her over there myself!!

suzannecaravaggio · 27/04/2016 10:37

But further to your point Billygoat I guess we need some sort of assisted living solution?
a situation where it becomes the norm to downsize preemptively, and wider availability of suitable accommodation?

suzannecaravaggio · 27/04/2016 10:40

Tanith, It doesn't help that lots of us turn into cantankerous manipulative old sods does it😰

BarbarianMum · 27/04/2016 10:43

I'm sure it's already been suggested but maybe her adult children could look after their mum for the rest of her life if they want to keep "their inheritance" in one piece?

Or downsize and use the surplus cash to buy in help so she can stay independent?

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 27/04/2016 10:44

Would it be possible to rent an assisted living flat, rather than buying one? I gather that such properties can be hard to sell, which could be a problem later if she had to move to a care home.

BlueJug · 27/04/2016 10:45

I am not saying that all care should be paid for by the state. At all. Nor am I saying that people have a right to inherit. I was explaining what I thought were factors in this debate. It is not black and white.

We are paying for my mum's care - willingly - in her own home. I also spent thousands in caring for her in an indirect way before we got carers in. (I still go every week and handle all the hospital visits etc)

Those who insist on the distinction between the elderly person's money and the adult child's money when discussing care homes, would you be invoicing for petrol, shopping, time and household repairs??

Yes elderly parents used to move in with adult daughters and sons but now, frequently, those adult children are in their seventies and ill themselves.

cleaty · 27/04/2016 10:51

Renting an assisted living flat will be very expensive.

IceRoadDucker · 27/04/2016 11:01

Ugh. Another poster worried more about inheritance than the comfort of a family member. The poor woman is still alive and people are worrying about where HER money is going to go.

Disgusting.

Sunshine87 · 27/04/2016 11:03

To be truthful this is why the state are increasing the age of retirement as we are living longer hate to think what age I will be retiring and what quality of life I will have afterwards

purplevase · 27/04/2016 11:09

Really it's a basic need and should be provided by family

no it should be provided by the care home even if they charge extra.

What happens if elderly person lives in Scotland and only relative is in Cornwall? Do you REALLY expect relative (who may be elderly themselves) to drive all that way every few weeks with soap and new socks?

CocktailQueen · 27/04/2016 11:12

Most care homes ask that each resident has some cash put into an account to pay for things like papers, haircuts, etc., but we are certainly asked to bring in toiletries and clothes. Perhaps if the resident has no family then the state provides toiletries too??

Sunshine87 · 27/04/2016 11:26

Purplevase we run a tuck shop and purchase toiletries for this purpose. We had residents with families who live abroad. This is fine if the family member has the funds in their accounts with admin to do so. Unfortunately this isn't always the case. Residents should have an weekly allowance of 22-25 pounds. Half of them don't have this amount put into their accounts some are aren't owning when you take our hairdressers, having their feet done etc.

OllyBJolly · 27/04/2016 11:27

Those who insist on the distinction between the elderly person's money and the adult child's money when discussing care homes, would you be invoicing for petrol, shopping, time and household repairs??

No, and I won't be invoicing my adult children for petrol, shopping, gymnastic club fees, childminding costs incurred in the first 20 years of their lives. Some things you do because that's what you do as a parent or a child. There's a huge difference between that and looking on care home fees as "eroding your rightful inheritance".

cleaty · 27/04/2016 11:36

If you are on benefits, the State provides a small sum of money every week to pay for costs such as clothes and toiletries. If families have Power of Attorney, this is the money that is sometimes stolen by families. If they are not on benefits and adult children have Power of Attorney, then they need to pay for these things from the parents money.

BlueJug · 27/04/2016 12:32

But it is not the same. I care for my children as my parents cared for me. That is one thing. We choose to have children and expect that we will support them until they are adult. (There are regular debates on here about exactly how long and to what degree adult children should be supported however).

We care for our parents because we love them. I have never asked for a penny from my parents. I love my Mum absolutely - although it is getting harder. (Ask anyone dealing with dementia what it does to your relationship)

BUT - the extent of that care increases - and keeps increasing. It is often at least equivalent to a part time job in terms of time and I personally would say I spend at least £5-7k a year on shopping, car-parking, house maintenance for Mum and drive 6,500 miles a year. I have taken three weeks off work at a time when she has been in hospital - and I am self employed so lose money. We are not talking about the odd pint of milk. I have been doing this, (to this extent), for over five years already. I am going broke and will have to sell my house to pay debts pretty soon.

That's fine. I am not asking for payment and nor are the millions of women who have been doing this for years. I would just like some understanding of what is really involved in caregiving without the label of "greedy" when any concern over costs is raised.