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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think that the options for elderly people are shocking

120 replies

Roseberrry · 26/04/2016 12:43

My grandma lives on her own but is slowly going blind, her body is gradually getting older and she's finding it harder and harder to live independently.

We started to look at options for moving her closer to me, I was shocked! Assisted living in our area consisted of a small 1-2 bedroom flat starting at £172k, you also have to pay 'rent' on top of that for the upkeep of the building.

The other option is that she sells her home to move in to a care home. Her adult children will miss out on inheritance and she will be paying £££ to live in a small room, not even allowed to shower alone in a lot of them.

Or she can carry on living alone and struggling. God knows what the choices will be like by the time I'm at that age but it's not looking good.

OP posts:

BoomBoomsCousin · 26/04/2016 15:38

Options now seem to be at least as good as they've ever been. It would be good if they were better, but I don't think they're shocking, and certainly I don't think the things that are most upsetting about them (the care home scandals for instance) are the things you have mentioned in your post.

There are other options to the ones you've mentioned. She could sell her home and move in with you, you can do the care, thereby preserving the savings she sent her whole life collecting so she can give it away in her will. This is what used to happen. It's still an option if you want it, but generally speaking people don't want that (neither the people who need care nor the people who would provide the care, in my experience).

You could also pay for a live in carer. My grandparents on both sides had this. Someone stayed with them in their home most of the time and every other weekend one of the children went up to provide the care while the carer had some time off. They were really lovely people and it made for much better final years for the grandparents. It did use up most of the inheritance though - but neither my mother nor father nor their siblings thought that the inheritance was something that they were entitled to at the cost of my grandparents' care or the taxpayers' purse.

I think there is a case to be made that we should make late life care a tax payer funded service. So we all pay more tax, but when we need care there is a pocket of money for it, regardless of how much your house is worth or how much savings you have, you get a disbursement that you can use however you like to ensure you are cared for in your old age. That could go to a daughter who takes care of you in her home, a carer who lives with you, sheltered housing, etc. But we don't have that system so for now, YABVU.

OddBoots · 26/04/2016 15:41

You haven't listed all the options, she could move in with family and have them care for her or she could employ carers to come in and support her in her own home.

AppleSetsSail · 26/04/2016 15:44

This is precisely what the proceeds of her house should be used for - ensuring she's comfortable in her final years.

cleaty · 26/04/2016 15:45

I always think it is disgusting when adults look at their parents money as their inheritance.
And yes, sadly I too have seen financial abuse of older people by their adult children. Including a case where Social Services got involved because the children did not want their mother going into a home because it would use up "their" inheritance. They didn't care that their mother could not look after herself, hence SS finally got involved.

Sunshine87 · 26/04/2016 15:50

Finacial abuse is very common and the main culprits are family members namely a child. People complain a lot about care homes abuse cases but in a lot cases are in the minority.

lalalalyra · 26/04/2016 16:16

I don't really understand the mindset that paying for care is "wasting" money. Spending money on houses, food, clothes, cars etc isn't seen as wasting it. Buying a house in a specific location for a job isn't wasting money so how is paying for what you need when you are older, which you do the rest of your life, wasting it?

I think the families people who are able to pay for care should be delighted that their relative can have choices. DH's Aunt is in a care home and she's got no money and the choice she had was "take this place or don't". She's miles from her family and in a distinctly average home. His other Aunt, and my Nana, were able to choose the home that suited them and could add things to their package (his Aunt has sky tv in her room for example) to make things more comfortable.

The single best thing about having money in life is that it gives choices, and I find it baffling that people have such an issue with their loved ones having choices.

CandyFlossBrain · 26/04/2016 16:39

I save for my future care, so I won't be a burden to my dc's. And if they end up persuading me to live in some hellhole so they can keep my money I imagine I'll be heartbroken...

Osolea · 26/04/2016 16:47

The range of options is fine IMO, but I object to people having to pay for it if they have assets. It seems very unfair when people who have nothing get exactly the same standard if care fir free.

Of course people who can't pay for it should get the support they need, but then everyone should get the support they need in old age regardless of how much they have in the bank or how much their house has gone up in value.

CandyFlossBrain · 26/04/2016 17:07

The range of options is fine IMO, but I object to people having to pay for it if they have assets. It seems very unfair when people who have nothing get exactly the same standard if care fir free.

The only way around that is to make decent care options free for everyone. But I'm sure Mr 'We're all in this together' would tell you that's not a possibility.

Are there many people who would happily give away their house to their family, and then spend the next ten years receiving barely adequate care when they could be living at a much nicer standard, using the money they worked for decades to accumulate? I don't want to live a miserable existence in my last few years, and I don't think that's selfish.

Osolea · 26/04/2016 17:11

I don't want to live a miserable existence in my last few year either, but to me the problem is that you often get people who are paying and who are not paying getting exactly the same level of 'comfort' (as in the things that go beyond the neccesary care) and I don't think that's fair.

Like you say, a decent standard of care in not miserable surroundings for everyone would be the ideal, but it's not likely to happen sadly.

BillyGoatGruff007 · 26/04/2016 17:22

Jeez,
If I need care when I'm older I'll use MY money/property/ assets to provide myself with a better place to live and a better standard of living - i.e. the best care home I and/or my family can find.
Why oh why oh why can't others such as the op understand this ?

BillyGoatGruff007 · 26/04/2016 17:30

And if people who have nothing get the same standard of care, then so be it - that is the society I have opted to be a part of and I wouldn't wish to change it; it is a fact of living in this society that those who can, pay, and those that can't don't.
Some get housing benefit, some don't; some get working tax credit, some don't; some get income support, some don't; some get free travel, some don't.
etc. etc. etc.

AppleSetsSail · 26/04/2016 17:34

Why anyone would think it's a good idea for the state to provide their senior care is beyond me.

Plan ahead.

expatinscotland · 26/04/2016 17:38

'The other option is that she sells her home to move in to a care home. Her adult children will miss out on inheritance and she will be paying £££ to live in a small room, not even allowed to shower alone in a lot of them. '

People will be forced to get away from this notion that the state should pay so they can inherit money as more and more people live so long they can no longer live independently.

LuisSuarezTeeth · 26/04/2016 17:40

If you want to move her closer to you, why does it need to be assisted living? Isn't you being nearby to help the whole point? Sounds like she could maybe downsize, have you nearby and back up with a homecare package. Although, as a pp said, it's really about what your grandmother wants.

Sunshine87 · 26/04/2016 17:55

The issue here is we have a generation who are living longer and medical care has advanced so much people are now affected more with dementia and general deterioration from old age that require assistance . Prior to this people died younger not requiring assisted care and therefore passed down their assets to family they were not obsorbed in care fees.

Who utilmately should be left to pick up the bill? We a large population of aging generation. We as an economy are unable to finacially provide the aging population with free care. As I stated further up in the thread the breakdown of costs of care are not cheap.

Why would you begrudge a relative using THEIR assets to seek apporiate care when they are unable to meet their needs anymore. Just because your inherence is or might be affected. Surely there safe and comfort should be paramount.

Sunshowercap · 26/04/2016 18:03

The other option is that she sells her home to move in to a care home. Her adult children will miss out on inheritance

YABU for this. We have houses to live in. They are not "inheritances" for our children. If your grandmother needs care, and can't live in her current home, she will have to move. Why should taxpayers fund for her housing, so that her children can inherit?

It's this sort of thinking which means we can't make rational, sustainable arrangements for the general dignity & well-being of elderly people when they need care.

ilovesooty · 26/04/2016 18:10

I haven't spoken to my sister since she was happy for me to contribute monthly to fund my mother's comforts in her care home while saying she couldn't afford to, and ranted about her house being "our inheritance".

ToastDemon · 26/04/2016 18:12

It makes me really uncomfortable that inheritance is at all a consideration when deciding on the most appropriate care for an elderly person.

Some very sad stories here from the care workers but happy that there's such obviously dedicated people working with the elderly - one usually only hears the bad news stories.

AppleSetsSail · 26/04/2016 18:15

It makes me really uncomfortable that inheritance is at all a consideration when deciding on the most appropriate care for an elderly person.

Yes, it can pervert the best of intentions. This is why people should rely upon insurance - it eliminates the lottery of old age.

19lottie82 · 26/04/2016 18:15

If you're bother about the inheritance then why not get her to move in with you and you can care for her?

Otherwise use HER money to pay for the care she needs, so she can spend her twilight years in comfort.

It really gets my goat when people moan about their parents / grandparents having to pay care fees. So the tax payer should cover it so you get your inheritance? No thanks!

ScOffasDyke · 26/04/2016 18:23

I work in a care home and to be truthful the amount of residents who are finacially abused by their relatives is unbelievable. Basic items such as soap bubble bath etc are not bought in and I've witness staff constantly ask family members to bring stuff in

Why on earth isn't soap provided? My MIL was paying £1000 per week, I'd certainly expect basic toiletries to be provided for that

Trills · 26/04/2016 18:26

There is an interesting discussion to be had about which services are free to everyone, which are means tested, and which are only available if you can pay.

I doubt the OP is interested in having that discussion though.

Sunshine87 · 26/04/2016 18:44

ScOffasDyke it's just isn't an item that's provided. Care homes don't provide toiletries or most that I have worked for don't . I suppose that could be down to cost. If you mergation in all the other breakdown of costs I meantioned further in the post it wouldn't be cost effective. Plus shampoo, body wash, soap,bubble bath, deodorant, talc, toothpaste, shaving foam,razors etc so add up per resident every fortnight for about 60-90 residents
. Also some residents may have skin allergies and can only use certain products. Really it's a basic need and should be provided by family as much as adequate clothing and footwear should be provided. It is not the care home responsibility but unfortunately there's some maverllous carers out there that really do go above and beyond.

SquinkiesRule · 26/04/2016 18:44

My mother sold her large three bed house and bought a retirement apartment, there is no nursing staff or carers only a part time manager in the office and pull cords in all rooms in case of an emergency and locked exterior doors you need a key or to buzz the flat from outside to get in. She pays maintence fees and ground rent they cover all the decotating and gardens maintence and the insurance for the building. With Electric and these fees she is still paying out a third of the costs she had in her house, even though she had no mortgage to pay. The management company is part of BUPA and they do a great job with the place and it's like walking into a posh hotel. Lots of like minded people about, many still active, working, volunteering and driving themselves all over. Nice places are out there we looked a lot and ran the numbers before she picked a flat in this one.
Options are out there for your grandmother, how big a place does she need on her own, a two bed is plenty big enough, or a one bed even.

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