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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think that the options for elderly people are shocking

120 replies

Roseberrry · 26/04/2016 12:43

My grandma lives on her own but is slowly going blind, her body is gradually getting older and she's finding it harder and harder to live independently.

We started to look at options for moving her closer to me, I was shocked! Assisted living in our area consisted of a small 1-2 bedroom flat starting at £172k, you also have to pay 'rent' on top of that for the upkeep of the building.

The other option is that she sells her home to move in to a care home. Her adult children will miss out on inheritance and she will be paying £££ to live in a small room, not even allowed to shower alone in a lot of them.

Or she can carry on living alone and struggling. God knows what the choices will be like by the time I'm at that age but it's not looking good.

OP posts:

OllyBJolly · 26/04/2016 18:49

My MIL was paying £1000 per week, I'd certainly expect basic toiletries to be provided for that

What was in the agreement when it was signed up? The fees cover bed, board and utilities as well as the staffing costs which are usually 24 hour. I suppose consumables like toiletries might be included in some places but you then have to watch out for allergies, preferences etc. It's a home, people should have what they want round them. If you break it down, your MIL is paying less than £6 an hour.

Why do we put so little value on the provision of care?

DaisyAdair · 26/04/2016 19:02

What a lovely idea claraschu

ConfuciousSayWhat · 26/04/2016 19:17

Basics aren't provided by the care home because you pay for rent, electric, water, food and your care. Toiletries, haircuts and clothing are 'extra' living costs that you buy according to what you like/use/can afford, same as if you were in your own home

FinnigansCake · 26/04/2016 19:28

My DF went into a care home when my 80 year old DM could no longer cope with his dementia. The home he was in was especially for people with dementia. It was clean but shabby. He received the same good care as all the other residents.

My mother was upset by the fact that she had to pay huge amounts from their joint savings to keep him there, in addition to the home taking his pension, when the vast majority of the residents were getting free care, including one of her relatives, who had spent her life going on numerous expensive holidays, helping her children financially and generally living it up to the point of having no assets when she needed care.

RosesareSublime · 26/04/2016 19:38

My mum is currently spending my 'inheritance' having a happy, comfortable and safe life in a residential home where she is surrounded by like-minded people and has everything she wants, needs and deserves. Good on her! I can't think of a better use for HER money

This is how I feel too, but you would be staggered by what I have heard from extremely wealthy people, ie people with a good few million in the bank moaning that an elderly relatives care ( that they are paying for themselves) may get more expensive as they need more care.
There is a strong attitude I have found that once your elderly you are expendable and only serve then as a cash cow.

ConfuciousSayWhat · 26/04/2016 19:40

I've told my parents to blow the lot while they're young enough to enjoy what they've earned. My siblings aren't happy with my take on things but as I said it at a big family dinner and all the extended family nodded and agreed it's a great idea they went along with it.

I've barely spoken to my siblings since then, it's great

MatildaTheCat · 26/04/2016 19:52

Many of the residents in care and nursing homes are sentient people with personal preferences in terms of toiletries etc. I would absolutely hate to be washed with generic nursing home soap etc. My mil certainly knows precisely what she wishes to use.

However, I think the OP has had a slightly hard time on here. When one first starts to investigate the whole elderly care industry it is very shocking just how much it costs. Mil has now been in her nursing home for 3years and 4 months at a cost of £1700 per week. It's not especially fancy and the care has, at times been questionable although most of the staff are kind and working in tough conditions.

So, so far that has cost £242k. And we all need to get our heads around this because the reality is that we are living longer than ever before but not necessarily in good health.

ConfuciousSayWhat · 26/04/2016 19:56

We pay £18 per hour for my nans carers in her home. So say that's a standard care rate, multiply by 24 hours, 7 days a week and you're already at £3k so really for 24 hour care youre getting a fairly good rate if you're paying £1000 per week or less

OneMillionScovilles · 26/04/2016 20:02

Trills - it's a very interesting and complex conversation, but like you, I don't think this is the OP where it's going to blossom... (Shall we start a thread in Chat? I have all of the Unformed Opinions that I'd love to shave the rough edges off...)

Back to the OP though - Her adult children will miss out on inheritance is a sentiment that knocks me sick. It is her goddamn money!

I may be very biased on this, because my parents both grew up with nothing, so it's far more clear cut that every penny they have, they've earned. I just can't think of it as anything other than money they've earned, and saved (having not had inheritances themselves)... They supported me for 18(+) years - what sort of mercenary person thinks they have a right to another penny once they're an adult? And thinks it should come at the cost of their parents receiving the best possible care?

BlueJug · 26/04/2016 23:03

It is never as simple as evil "children" only wanting the money. It is so much more complex than that.

Many women give up careers, compromise their own marriages and children, spend their own money on petrol and shopping for years before the inevitable decision to "put" a relative in care.

The relatives themselves rarely choose to leave their homes. They never think they are ready "just yet".

They too worry about the money. They were often very frugal and hate the thougtht of all that money being spent on care - as would you be if you suddenly had to spend it. They hate the fact they are not in control of their spending.

They want to leave something for their kids - it is so much a part of being a parent - to give something to those we love. It hurts to have that taken away from you.

The point about only those who have saved having to pay for care whilst those who spent get it for free is very apt. We like to believe that society is fair and if we don't perceive it as such we will no longer play ball - it is a basic instinct.

It is a massive problem and as a society we seem to have no idea about how to solve it.

ConfuciousSayWhat · 26/04/2016 23:13

The basic premise of this society is if you want a roof over your head you pay for it, if you want food you pay for it, if you want a service you pay for it.

Why, just because you're old, do the rules of society no longer apply?

CocktailQueen · 26/04/2016 23:14

ScoffasDyke - mil pays £1000 a week in a care home too and we have to buy all toiletries for her. She uses more toiletries now than she ever has done in her life.

And good for her. We want her to be as comfortable as possible bad enjoy her time there as much as possible.

MailonlineEffOff · 26/04/2016 23:16

How do you know the back story to these no soap residents? Maybe they were shit parents?

DementedUnicorn · 27/04/2016 01:22

Are you seriously suggesting that it would be ok to deny someone basic care products like soap because they were a shit parent??

I wouldn't do it on a dog and can't even imagine what type of person would think that was a justifiable reason.

Sunshine87 · 27/04/2016 04:47

Mail online you for real

cleaty · 27/04/2016 06:15

Mailonline - The poster is talking about adult children not buying soap with their elderly parents money, because they are spending it on themselves. It does not matter how shit they were as parents, that is financial abuse.

Thebrowntrout · 27/04/2016 06:29

Nice post BlueJug

To be honest I think euthanasia will come in quite soon, possibly in the next decade.

cleaty · 27/04/2016 07:32

You may sadly be right. There is terrible ageism in our society, which is very much evident on MN.

expatinscotland · 27/04/2016 08:49

'To be honest I think euthanasia will come in quite soon, possibly in the next decade.'

I believe assisted suicide should be legal and a viable option for those of sound mind with terminal or progressive diseases.

CocktailQueen · 27/04/2016 08:57

Ha ha. Lots of people have said this already, but why on earth should the state look after old people? You pay your own way - and if that means selling your house to pay for care, then so be it.

Not all care homes are bad. My MIL lives in a brand-new, purpose-built care home with small wings (each for 16 people max), small dining rooms, small lounges (so it looks more like a house, not a care home), all beautifully furnished. She has her own wet room and, frankly, a better standard of living and more luxury than she has ever had at home. Entertainment every day, choice of cooked meals and lunch and tea, lovely staff, hairdresser and beautician on site...

Ironic, really. And yes, we have had to sell her home to pay for it!

The problem is that people who have worked hard and saved all their lives will often have to sell their homes to fund their care, whereas people who have spent all their money will be cared for by the state, which is not fair - there's no incentive for people to save then, is there? But I can't see a way out.

Make a compulsory tax that people have to pay to start funding their own elderly care? Which is refunded if they don't need it?

The govt will have to start thinking this through, though, because of the huge rise in people living longer and the pressure that adult services are under.

BTW, has anyone noticed that the OP has disappeared?

suzannecaravaggio · 27/04/2016 09:12

I've heard that in Japan there is some sort of compulsory elderly care insurance?

Obviously elderly care services could be more efficient, better organized etc but should it be free?

Idk, no one has to worry about bankruptcy from medical bills after a road traffic accident in the UK, you don't have to sell your house to pay for your care if you have heart disease or diabetes brought on by an unheathly lifestyle.
If I'm an obsessive exerciser and I fall off my bike I get treated for free.
I didn't have to pay to send my children to school, nor for the medical care I received when they were born.

What should be free, what should we have to pay for?

'Generation rent' won't have houses to sell when they need elder care

cleaty · 27/04/2016 09:16

In China adult children are legally obliged to care for and financially provide for parents.

cleaty · 27/04/2016 09:18

suzanne - A lot of "generation rent" will inherit. And those that don't will be cared for by the state in the same way elderly people are now who don't own their own home.
Even if you own your own home, selling it will only pay for a small number of years of care. After about 2 years I would have no money left. So the state still has to support many people who have owned their own homes.

suzannecaravaggio · 27/04/2016 09:20

That seems regressive to me Cleaty, something which belongs in primitive clan based cultures

suzannecaravaggio · 27/04/2016 09:22

Surely the theoretical inheritances of generation rent will be used to fund elder care?

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