Is Beyonce lemonade the most powerful black feminist piece of work?

[GetInFormationLadies]

I'm barely over the death of prince but this album as made me shed a lake ful of tears in the last day.

It's such a powerful, strong love filled album that will help all black women get through even their darkest days.

She has left behind her sugar pop to try something very risky but to follow her heart.

I can not recommend it enough.

you are welcome (MyName now HisName - more apt I think :) ).

One song I've just listed to (Sandcastles I think) really evoked Bjork for me - in the trembles and tone of her vocals. Raw and quavery and unapologetic for the emotion captured there.

It's disheartening to see that most of the criticism being aimed towards Beyonce here has been about her appearance and relationship. Absolutely.

I've just read Jamelia's fantastic letter to the odious cunt that is Piers "IWannaBeTheMaleKatieHopkins" Morgan - go Jamelia!!

Summary here www.buzzfeed.com/fionarutherford/stop-piers-morgan-2016?utm_term=.mx19j7EZJ#.wnld8N0YL

I recall Jamelia repeatedly being labelled "difficult" throughout her career - of course this is the standard music/entertainment industry label for a female artist with an opinion/voice of her own.

Mistress I agree with all that you have said. What I found intriguing was that it made me realise how bias I am. When I think of Lauren hill and Eyrikah badu, I never think of how messed up their lives are and how they are walking contradiction to their media persona.

I had forgotten about Eyrikah badu and her bath/glitter gate scandal and the aftermath. people also forget that she wears an Afro wig too sometimes to keep that look going.

Or Lauren hill and that letter she wrote after the tax evasion, cringe

What amazes me too is the love people have for people like Josephine baker. Her most famous performance in France she was almost naked. Her most famous picture is of her with banana strings round her waist with a neckless and no bra. However she is held at a higher esteem to Beyoncé or Rihanna.

Myname thanks for the link. I have listened to the radio version and believe it does not do the whole body of work justice. The monologues are so powerful. I can understand why people thought it was just about a relationship. The spoken word changes the content to even the song and the in between clips merges the whole album into movie. Or musical, sort of.

quencher I've watched a few of the videos on Twitter and they included some of the monolgues which I agree are powerful.

Will def be buying the full album/film from itunes when I get home tonight & indulge in it all weekend. I do wish they would throw in a "clean" version too so I could listen with my daughters, but I guess I can use the Radio One link for that (it is edited).

Very disappointed to come back to the thread and see the hair argument (the 'hair card' being played?)

What next? Hilary Clinton cannot be President because she's had so many different hairstyles over the years, including [shock! horror!] perms, we could never take her seriously? And she dyes it blonder? Said no one ever.

Fine to make a general point about the persistence of fashions for black women that involve disguising or obliterating their physical racial characteristics, not fine to pick on individual black women as either responsible for those fashions or ashamed of their blackness.

These things are much bigger and far older than any one person and different black women ought to be able to find different ways to get by without facing unfair personal criticism.

I love it, I love the power, I love the feminism, I love her finally really speaking to her black sisters.... I love that little black girls everywhere have an incredible role model....

It's powerful/.

(Although as a white woman I feel like a bit of a for saying all this)

Some of the attitudes on this thread have me agog! How Beyoncé wears her hair has fuck all do with...well fuck all. Sorry that's not very eloquent but it's how it is.

The patriarchy really has done a good job on some women haven't they. No need for men to drag us down when we can do it to ourselves eh?

As for the who has the right to be a feminist argument - this is exactly what puts many women off the term. Some people need to seriously walk a mile in someone else's shoes before spouting this bullshit.

I have now listened to the album and read the lyrics and monologues, and have re-read the thread. Quencher I'm wondering if you're reading things into it. I don't see anything about rape or black men in prison. To me it seems to be another album focuses on a relationship. Guy cheated, girl forgave him. No it's not all ballads and some of the lyrics are a bit dark but (in my opinion!) it is merely following a well trodden path. I don't see how colour or rape or black men in prison comes into it, and IMO it isn't really very feminist either.

Genuinely not having a go, I am just a bit bemused.

Just read Jamelias letter, I have always dismissed her as a bit stupid...

Wow.

^I am shocked that she is singing about or she is apparently not ashamed to be black, yet I have never seen her with her natural hair. She wears wigs resembling straight or wavy European hair. How can that be empowering to black women?
I've never seen white women struggle every day before work trying to get their afro wigs on before they leave the house.^

You actually wrote that?

You don't sense your own racism coming out?
I dye my hair peroxide blond, it doesn't mean I'd rather be a fucking albino than English.

Just read Jamelias letter, I have always dismissed her as a bit stupid

That's harsh, we can't all be perfect intellects.

Why did you think that? I admired how she carried herself as a young woman and mother in the public eye when she was dealing with a arsehole of a partner.

The variety of things she's said like clothing should come in big sizes as it encourages people to be fat.

Shouldn't

The natural hair vs weave/relaxed hair debate is probably similar to the wider 'can you wear makeup and high heels and still be a feminist.' I often feel left out of the mainstream feminist discourse as a muslim female because it's often 'if you wear a headscarf you can't be a feminist' and that's that. The drawbridge to the feminist fortress has been pulled up and we're left on the banks with the moat in between. And also conversely, that comment about black activist men expecting black women to wear their natural hair but still going off with the Becky with the good hair. That made me think on how muslim women in the muslim discourse are Put up on a pedestal, considered as holding up the honour of the faith by veiling, keeping purdah etc but muslim men themselves can marry out the faith as they like. Those same men who would be very judgemental of a muslim woman doing the same thing.

Likewise beyonce not being a real feminist because her husband cheated on her is unfair as Hilary Clinton mentioned earlier - her husband cheated on her publically and yet no one says she's anything less than a full feminist.

miniu thanks for sharing your story and thoughts it's so important to have our girls confident and resilient to how the world is. iv thought alot on how to build that and I can kind of understand azealia bank's point about their national black women's conversation moving away from ideas about anger, being cheated on, doggone men etc. I am careful not to give my children a grievance narrative so it's more stuff to make her proud of herself rather than stuff to make her feel embattled and embittered at a tender age (as I had delivered to me as a youngster!). Eg I don't talk about slave trade/colonialism/racism/shadeism. All that's left out (I wonder what age to start having conversations like that with your kids anyway?) Iv seen how nareatives based on victimhood can sometimes lead to negative behaviours/attitudes/mental health so im wary of starting that at this age. Rather for me it's connecting to parts of our ethnic history and background that give an idea of ancientness/culturedness without any anger or grief about the effed up state of affairs today. Like you with introducing your dad to ME foods etc. I don't like azzealia banks but I guess i understand in some ways it's maybe that feeling about same old same old depressing talk she raised about though Iv enjoyed listening to Beyoncé's new album.

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/feb/08/black-women-mental-health-high-rates-depression-anxiety

'“I don’t talk to people who say they have mental health issues,” says Dr Victoria Showunmi, a lecturer at the UCL Institute of Education. “I talk to black women in particular and, after speaking to them in a discussion group, say, they will then acknowledge the fact they have been suffering from issues related to bad mental health.” She speculates that these might be “the need to be strong, resilient, [and] fear of being called an angry black woman.”

moonstruck

I admit I find patriarchal faith and symbols of that faith which are more for women than men a real struggle when it comes to feminism. I feel that your feminism is very limited by the place in which you must live as a woman within your religion. However there are Muslim feminists and they seem to be forging way ahead trying to wrestle feminism within the confines of Islam. It's interesting how much I've considered where Muslim sisters will find themselves in the whole trans thing, i.e. hair covered in front of a transwoman who is biologically male, but that's a question for another time.

I whole heartedly agree with you about one Bey's hair, to be honest I find the whole idea that she shouldn't have her hope how she wants just a bit racist to be honest. And the fact that a woman who loves her husband staying if he cheats has no bearing on her feminism at all. Besides I think her feminism is really coming into it's own now she's a mother, I think that's very common. The huge wake up when motherhood begins.

excuse the typos....

Boogietime this is the prison one. I will try and get the rape one and why I thought so.
You find the black tube inside her beauty case where she keeps your father's old prison letters.* You desperately want to look like her. You look nothing like your mother. You look everything like your mother. Film star beauty. How to wear your mother's lipstick. You go to the bathroom to apply your mother's lipstick. Somewhere no one can find you.
You must wear it like she wears disappointment on her face. Your mother is a woman and women like her cannot be contained. Mother dearest, let me inherit the earth. Teach me how to make him beg. Let me make up for the years he made you wait. Did he bend your reflection? Did he make you forget your own name? Did he convince you he was a god? Did you get on your knees daily? Do his eyes close like doors? Are you a slave to the back of his head?*
Am I talking about your husband or your father?

She is definitely not talking about herself unless I have misunderstood the context. But why would she ask the listener if she is talking about them ?

It also come cross as the person she is talking to is not her mother.

Did you get on your knees daily? Do his eyes close like doors? Are you a slave to the back of his head? This bit sounds like he gets a blow job then leaves. I might be over thinking it or I just have a dirty mind.

Why can't they just be recognised as strong, extremely talented females. End Of!

Why recognize them as females then, why not just people? Is it because we admit women have a different experience and different obstacles than men?

I've never been a Beyonce fan, curious now though!

Read the whole thread now - some amazing posters here.

This whole idea of someone not being black enough, or not feminist enough, or having the wrong hair, or somehow being "disqualified" due to other peoples perceptions, is just ridiculous.

I found the whole SNL skit hugely unfunny and WTAF? Maybe it would make more sense if I was American, but I'm not. So it just left me feeling confused, annoyed, and pissed off.

I wouldn't call myself a diehard Beyonce fan - I've never bought an album before, but I've enjoyed her music and found her fascinating as a talent, a performer and a business women. I've downloaded the Lemonade album now, watched the video and I'm awestruck. I'm absolutely in the LOVE IT camp.

A comparison to Madonna was offered upthread, but maybe because of the timing, I've been thinking about her compared to Prince. He wore his hair many different ways - he's not disparaged for it. No ones talking about Prince wanting to be white because of how his hair looks. He's celebrate not called out for his style, his image, his moves, because he wear heels, makeup and all those freaking amazing clothes.

Prince controlled how his music was accessed and experiences - passionately. Beyonce does it and its called a cynical marketing move. It's incredibly difficult to control access to music in this digital age and I think what she has done is amazing - harking back to the old school ways. Fucking hell, she's created a concept album and people are buying the whole album, driven by the video no doubt - it's becoming rare these days or streaming playlists, and download singles. It's a considerable achievement. And an important once.

And yes she is a rich woman - but when B earns a royalty from a sale or stream, so do many many other people involved in the project - all the writers, performers, producers. Take a look at the list of credits - it's incredible the number of contributors.

As for these ideas about "becoming black now she's rich & successful" - wow. For a start she is a black woman - there is no changing that. And it's simply called life. B was 19 when Destiny's Child was formed, managed by her father. So she's been an artist for at least 26 years. How many of us are doing the same things and thinking the same thoughts as we did when we were 19, 25, 35? Thankfully most people develop, grow, expand, learn, read, as they live life and experience the world. Who doesn't change when they become a mother? Regardless of how autobiographical Lemonade is or isn't, of course she couldn't have made this album when she was first starting out, either as Destiny's Child or earlier in her solo career.

For me Lemonade is feminist, it's about BLM, it's calling to to people, it's musically interesting, vocally and lyrically provocative. It speaks to me about being a woman, it encourages me to feel more powerful. And yes she is proudly standing on the shoulders of giants, of all those amazing black women who came before her.

Not adding anything to the thread but I'm loving the Hold Up track with the Andy Williams song sampled in the background.

I've seen clips of the Lemonade film, also watched James Corden take it off, will wait for dozens of the same parodies to come out, much like Adele's video.

I'm not a huge fan but I might just check out this album, seems really gritty.

Late to the party but I just got the album today and I love it! Her last album was good but this one is brilliant, really deep and emotional.

Anyone else going to see her when she tours here?

B was 19 when Destiny's Child was formed, managed by her father. So she's been an artist for at least 26 years.

Huh? She's 34.........

Anyone else going to see her when she tours here?

I have tickets. Have one for my almost-6 year old but having downloaded and watched Lemonade today aim not entirely sure it's appropriate!

Oh Ok well I got the sums wrong. I read the first Destiny's Child album were signed to Colombia in 1996. Beyonce was born in 1981 according to Wikipedia, so she would have been 15ish - still a child.

so she must have been very young! And in no position to release an album like Lemonade.