to want to see the will?

[tremble]

NC for this, just in case. We've just found out a distant relative has died, and the funeral was yesterday. My DS and I are pretty angry that we weren't told, as we knew the relative when we were children and would like to have paid our respects.

We found this out today when we got a letter from relative's sister saying that the relative hadn't signed their will, so we and a few cousins and aunts etc will inherit a share of their estate. But the sister says she wants to honour the unsigned will and has asked us to revoke our shares so she can do this. We hadn't expected to inherit anything so we're not fussed about the money which probably won't be much, but we thought we'd ask to see the unsigned will so we can be sure that if we give up our shares then it goes to the right people.

But the sister says we're not allowed see it. She won't even tell us which solicitor is handling the estate and got pretty angry when we asked, saying we had no right. Her behaviour seems a little suspicious but we haven't really any experience with wills. Is it unreasonable to ask to see it? And what would you do?

There was no will. I think it was because the estate wasn't big enough and possibly due to funeral costs?

If i remember rightly on the gov website there was guidance about an estate value and if it was above or below that the rules differed.

As stated previously the funds were put towards funeral costs.

I used to work in a bank. If people brought in the funeral bill we would pay up before probate.

Lots and lots of good advice from everyone, thanks! You are all incredibly knowledgeable. I think I agree that taking her money will be viewed as being complicit in any wrong-doing, especially as she has asked everyone to sign a form she drew up herself stating that we were accepting our share of the estate.

I also didn't come back and update the thread, but I misread the date of the funeral - it said 22nd and I must have been in April mode, but when I re-read after posting I noticed it was actually March. So it was even longer afterwards than I first posted.

I know there is no point in asking her again for any documentation as she has already stated this is none of our business, and says she will not engage with us any more.

SuperFlyHigh There is definitely not a will, signed or otherwise. The deceased lived in a small town so I've already rung around all the solicitors. Only one had a history of them as a client, and confirmed there was no will made.

She is adamant everything has been done according to the law, but it clearly isn't. I think I will have a word with the Office of the Public Guardian in Scotland as per Penfold007's suggestion.

Chipper, would be interested to see your thread. We can compare notes!

OP but wait hang on a sec so is the sister lying about having an unsigned will?!

Yes office of public guardian and potentially police for the sister as if she's helped herself to the money really it's theft.

Disgusting, greedy behaviour from her (the sister) and most solicitors (if any good) will more than happily help you unravel the non will etc problem for a fee of course.

Ps sorry for your loss.

As soon as we showed the bank my father's death certificate they froze his account and refused to let us have access to the money, even though according to his will we were the sole beneficiaries, the whole proper legal process had to be gone through, rightly so.
If the account has been emptied, this was done before the death or before the bank knew of it - potentially legally through enduring power of attorney, potentially fraudulently - so it's a police matter really. I am not a lawyer though.

Def don't accept any money

If there was a will and no dates and signed then means nothing - found this out when dh died. He tried to do a will but didn't date or get it signed by 2 witness's

If there is a will then the soliciter will contact you

If there isn't then will go to probate

This is most intriguing!

If she had nothing to hide she would show you documentation, so last bank statements, etc.

If she had nothing to hide she wouldn't be trying to get you to sign dodgy bits of paper saying you accept this is your share.

I know you say it's only going to be £hundreds but you never know. You read about old folk sometimes who were loaded and lived a frugal lifestyle and everyone says after they died that they had no idea that there was so much money.

Actually, I've had a look at the website for the Office of the Public Guardian and I don't think they will be able to help as their duty is to a living adult. They don't have any involvement after a death. Looks like it is the police then. She has got hold of the bank account funds possibly be deception, so that could be embezzlement. She has tried to obtain our shares with the story of a will that didn't exist so that could be fraud.

It should be a clear-cut decision, shouldn't it? I just feel so nervous about doing it. Will sleep on it, I think.

Please let us know the outcome OP - appreciate it's a trying time but it would be good to know how it pans out X

speak to the others involved in writing the letter and explain the issue with them taking the money offered now/signing away their shares

• yes its a lovely windfall but it may alter their genuine claims for benefits/assistance,

and if there is wrongdoing by the relative involved in apparently 'settling' the estate then they could be considered in some way complicit in her fraud/dishonesty by having accepted the money

tremble

I quite like Maryz's suggestion of applying to be executor.

The thing is, this woman may already know she is in the shit. I believe that something specific triggered the letters to you, and not guilt/benevolence. Particularly now that you say she died EVEN EARLIER than you originally thought. I am guessing she figured she could keep this all under wraps, you'd find out about the death later, you might be a bit miffed but it wouldn't even occur to you you might benefit or you'd assume there wasn't much/antyhing left to distribute. She may or may not have "borrowed" money from the accounts during the lifetime that she now would be called on to explain/put right. Whatever the actual facts, it's all come home to roost.

DO you think it's worth having a very stern word/giving her one more chance to put things right before doing something like going to the police? This is what I would be thinking about now, if you are in the position to phone or visit her.

Watching this with interest. Cousin's mother recently died. She was in a care home and coursing had POA. It transpires that cousin used his mother's savings to buy himself two new cars over the last couple of years.

Tremble I'm just wondering, if you want to try again with her before going in all guns blazing, might it be worth saying you've "taken advice, and need all the paperwork before reporting back to your advisor and deciding what steps might be necessary"? You could even imply that disclosure might avoid anything further, while refusal would leave you with no choice as you being asked difficult questions yourself?

She'll assume you mean a solicitor, of course, and without actually lying there's no need to deny that. Maybe, though, you might get a bit more out of her this way - especially if she's already worried about something she's done which might be less than honest?

watching with interest to x

I agree you could apply to be executor but it doesn't take away from the fact that this woman has tried to defraud you and other beneficiaries of what's rightfully theirs, I'd have to say police.

These people who do this generally know exactly what they're up to for their own gains etc so don't assume she's an innocent party in this and don't feel sorry about going after her.

puzzled the way with doing it your way (and seen it happen) is then people dripfeed and try again to lie and steal more money.

They need to know this is very serious, a criminal offence - otherwise really if op and the others aren't bothered then the system doesn't work and they're defrauded or get left with crumbs of the deceased's woman's estate which sister is doling out. Again either way it's illegal, criminal and fraud. If the sister did this to her sister who else could she do this to as well?

Doesn't a length of time (some months?) have to pass to make sure that all debts/bills have come in & been paid before an estate can be distributed?

people dripfeed and try again to lie and steal more money

You're right, SuperFly; I guess I was just trying to think of some way she might be persuaded to be more - errr - forthcoming before it all spins out of control and potentially gets even nastier. I realize it probably wouldn't work, but it's not as if the suggestion would cancel out OP's other options, should she want to use them ...

Report her to the local police for fraudulently withdrawing money from a deceased person's account, which is what it amounts to as she used her PoA to do it after the person's death. It will be very easy for the police to get the banks to produce statements that show the activity after the date of death.

Whilst agreeing with pp's that it all sounds very fishy, is there any possibility that your aunt had a joint account with the sister? A friend of mine had one with her elderly mother, to facilitate writing chequers/ shopping etc,. If this was the case, then the joint account would still be accessible to the sister after your aunts death.
Ubviously, such an arrangement is very much based on trust, and is open to abuse, so not something that the bank would advise, but I know it isn't that unusual. Just a thought.

I think you should take this to the police. It's the principal of the matter.

Faded if a joint account then all the money in it is jointly owned and passes to the survivor on death automatically.

Yes Jessie -a joint account would not be frozen on the death of one of the account holders. I just added the idea to the discussion, as many posters were suggesting that it appears like the sister might have accessed the aunts bank account after she died, which is illegal. If sister and aunt had a joint account, in the same way my friend did, then she would have the money without having stolen it or having to wait for probate or Scottish equivilent to be granted.
I know it is unlikely, but it is possible.