to want to see the will?

[tremble]

NC for this, just in case. We've just found out a distant relative has died, and the funeral was yesterday. My DS and I are pretty angry that we weren't told, as we knew the relative when we were children and would like to have paid our respects.

We found this out today when we got a letter from relative's sister saying that the relative hadn't signed their will, so we and a few cousins and aunts etc will inherit a share of their estate. But the sister says she wants to honour the unsigned will and has asked us to revoke our shares so she can do this. We hadn't expected to inherit anything so we're not fussed about the money which probably won't be much, but we thought we'd ask to see the unsigned will so we can be sure that if we give up our shares then it goes to the right people.

But the sister says we're not allowed see it. She won't even tell us which solicitor is handling the estate and got pretty angry when we asked, saying we had no right. Her behaviour seems a little suspicious but we haven't really any experience with wills. Is it unreasonable to ask to see it? And what would you do?

She is legally and morally wrong. Presumably she knows some of the beneficiaries are in dire straits and could do with the bequest to put food on the table.

Blatant placemarking sorry

My experience with a much much more major fraud than this was that the police did not, in any way at all, see it as their job to gather evidence. That was our job: they did interview the suspect, and look at our evidence - but as the amount was below 100K and record keeping was bad, they didn't press charges. (100K!!!)

Goodness. Do you know this woman well? Have you always had a bad relationship with her?

Is there any possibility that she's suffering from some sort of mental illness? I only ask because if I were perpetrating a fraud and frankly shitting myself that I was about to get found out after nicking money from someone for whom I hold PoA, I'd NOT be personally insulting the people who have clearly been researching the topic! And the idea of an invalid will, her appointing herself executor, etc - is she (for want of a better phrase) kind of uneducated and watches a lot of soaps? Or could she be a bit delusional?

Maybe I am out of line with others here, I have read most of the thread but not all of it, but it seems a shame you weren't as worried about this relative when she was alive as you are now she is dead. Perhaps she was financially abused by her sister when she was alive and if any of the now concerned relatives had visited or kept in touch she could have benefitted from the money you are now all so interested in.

I always find it so interesting to see how many caring people come out of the woodwork when someone dies.

Doesn't excuse the sister if she is up to something but I would be too ashamed to do anything about it.

When my dad died, I was shocked by how 'easy' it would be to act fraudulently with regards to inheritance, when there is no will. Whoever takes control can do pretty much what they like and so long as no one challenges your actions, no one would ever know. I appointed myself administrator and between the close family members we agreed to split the money equally, sold his house, claimed insurance policies etc got probate and done. You have to swear an affidavit to say everything's been done properly but if you were dishonest I dare say that wouldn't bother you.

The thing I find interesting about this situation is if the sister had not got in touch she could have kept all the money without you finding out OP. Then the onus would have been on you and the other inheritees to take legal action against her which would probably cost more than you would inherit anyway. My point is she knew what she was doing was dodgy and she was trying to cover her arse. Having said that, my advice would be to try and resolve the situation amicably if you possibly can, even if it goes against what you really feel. Death and inheritance bring out the very worst in people. Why not try getting in touch in a few days and asking to meet up with her face to face and sort things out as auntie would have liked, explain you feel she handled the situation badly initially but you can sort things out without involving solicitors and police, as that really isn't in anyone's interests ultimately. Give her some rungs to climb down, so to speak. It will probably mean you'll get more money in the long run and maybe avoid a huge family rift. You'll still know she was dodgy as, but you'll maintain the moral highground. Good luck

What a disgusting thing to say granny. You know nothing about the dynamics of the relationships.

Grannytomine - the OP said she knew the relative when she was young. And then was told she would be participating in a possible fraud. It's really not about money here!

mrgrouper I know someone who didn't tell their sibling when or where a parents funeral was going to be and it has changed my opinion of them forever. People will know that you weren't told and they will have their own opinion of those who didn't tell you.

I am very sorry you had to go through that too.

I think it is all about money. The OP obviously hasn't been in touch with the deceased for some time, she even says that somewhere, but is now putting alot of energy into investigating where the money is.

As I said it doesn't excuse the sister if she has done something dodgy but personally if I hadn't bothered with someone for years I would feel it wasn't my place to get involved in the will, I would leave that to the people who had been involved with the deceased when she was alive.

If you thought you didn't deserve to get any inheritance then you can choose to decline it, and give it back. But it should be your choice. Being manipulated and lied to unsurprisingly gets people's backs up. If it was me then no way would I roll over and let her get away with it. Her actions have shown that she doesn't 'deserve' it. I'd rather give the money to charity than the liar.

Just picked up on this thread. Oh poor you OP - nightmare. I used to do trusts and estates for a living (life before DCs) but wouldn't touch Scots ones as the law is so different there. There is a specialist industry body for professionals who work in these fields called the Society of Trust and Estate Practitioners. I would look on their website to find the Scottish branch closest to where your late relative lived (if there isn't a local one then just try Edinburgh) and then contact the branch chair and ask if they can suggest where you could get some help in the first instance to sort out in your (and similarly affected relatives' heads) what your options are. Don't be embarrassed about explaining that you have no idea of the actual value of the estate and therefore don't want to run up fees at this point whilst at the same time not wanting to get shed loads of free advice. Many firms will give you a 20-30 minute chat with a qualified but junior member of staff free and gratis and if the branch chair's firm don't do that then they may well be able to refer you to one who will. They may also have some FAQ sheets produced by their firm on estates that they could post or email to you to forward on to your relative to show her how she might have jumped the gun somewhat on the estate.... I used to have a place on one of their committees and people often referred inquiries like this to me and was quite happy to have a brief chat with people.

All wills have to go via probate the will once the executor has applied to deal with the estate will be held by the principle registry

I needed to get a copy of my mums will and it took a week or so once you've filled in the forms and there is a small fee but I got it without a problem

granny This relative contacted the OP weeks after her sister's death with a story about a "will" that clearly wasn't the truth. She has shown subsequently that she has no regard for the law and is planning to do what she sees fits with the estate of a woman for whom she had PoA/access to her assets prior to her death. If the OP goes along with whatever she suggests without evidence that it's been cleared by a solicitor/the relevant authorities who examine these proceedings, she could be at risk herself. The OP is not the bad guy here. HTH.

If the sister is prepared behave this way now , who knows what she may have been doing when the deceased was alive.

In any case, the OPs relative let the genie out of the bottle as a PP said. I still maintain something triggered the 'arse covering.'

I am surprised at the way things have gone. Good luck with the solicitor.

The whole POA arena is fraught people either don't understand the extent of the powers they have (we are trying to get my aunt to agree to sell an elderly relatives house as they are in a care home now, will never return home and it is costing a fortune to maintain) or abuse the powers....

My brother ( a solicitor) is on the verge of contact the office of the public guardian.

My gut instinct tells me that the sister will get away with it as the police will just fob the OP off. I hope I'm wrong but nobody whose job it is to stop this sort of thing seems bothered about it.

As far as I understand it you have every right to know how much money there was and where it came from.

If a solicitor was dealing with it you, as a residual beneficiary, would have had a copy of the will (if there was one) and a copy of the final estate accounts with the cheque.

I think people are getting distracted by the idea of a will being relevant here at all. From the OP it seems that the relative died intestate but there was a draft unsigned will around. OP is a beneficiary in the intestacy but has been asked to relinquish her share and agree to money being distributed as per the draft will. It could just as easily have been a scribbled letter or the deceased relative just saying orally who she wanted to have the money. The fact that the wishes appear in a draft will is neither here nor there. However the big question marks are (a) how the dodgy relative got hold of the deceased' money and (b) what the deceased's wishes actually are. it's quite possible that (a) is legit because the dodgy relative could well have been appointed administrator (or whatever the correct Scots legal term is) of the intestate estate, but she'd be bound to distribute as per intestacy rules. And she is being far too cagey about her authority to handle the estate.

Just read the whole, fascinating thread. Placemarking really, as I've learned so much that may be of future use. Sorry you are in this position tremble but think you've done absolutely the right thing by involving the police and trying to get at the truth here. Think the surviving sibling's unpleasantness is probably directly proportional to the dodginess of her actions and the size of the bricks she is now shitting. granny OP has been very clear about the fact that it's not about the money but about the surviving sibling's behaviour. I think most of us would feel the same - I know I would. for you OP: there is much paperwork ahead...

Any update???

Yes, I'm very much hoping there's an update, and that it's positive. OP, any news?

After reading 10 pages - I'd like to know the outcome!

Call Heir Hunters. Would be fantastic tv.

MrsLupo yes I know she has been clear about it not being the money but isn't it funny how people get so principled when money is about? Poor old lady who wasn't visited when she was alive but people wanted to pay their respects when she was dead. The bunch of flowers would mean so much more when people are still alive but of course the concerned relatives didn't even know where she was living. Of course family were probably to busy to visit her but they can find lots of time to fight the will. I know a family who went through similar, years down the line more money has been spent on legal fees than was in the will, the solicitors must kill themselves laughing.