AIBU to object to teenage drinking encouraged by other mums?

[captainfarrell]

My DD is under 16. We don't give her alcohol. To our knowledge she doesn't drink elsewhere. This last year her friends have had birthday 'gatherings' at home till about 10pm, parents are home and some girls sleep over. It has come to my attention via a couple of rogue FB pics and from another mum that alcohol has been at these parties. My DD says she hasn't had any but that others have smuggled it in however on a couple of occasions a couple of the mums bought it for the party.Most of the girls are 14 about to turn 15. I am shocked that they encourage this.Lots of teens experiment but supplying it seems a whole other ball game to me. AIBU?

[magratsflyawayhair]

My dad used to buy us all a can of lager each to go with our takeaway when my friends came over. It was clear we weren't to have too much and he'd rather we had a social drink at home than got mortal in the park or something. I think it was a sensible way to manage our desire to be seen as adults.

I have drink to excess but not often and I think most of my sense came from being treated as able to make decisions sensibly early on.

[captainfarrell]

Again I will say , I have not and would not ask the parent not to serve alcohol, that is their decision. I will have the conversation with my child and decide whether DD can go to a party based on what I know. I still don't have too agree with that parent and they don't have to agree with my rules. The same applies to every parenting decision. I do expect to be told that an illegal substance will be made available to my child whilst on their premises so that I can make a decision.

[wasonthelist]

I think the law in this country doesn't help. It's not illegal to give alcohol to a child at home
I disagree - I don't want us to follow the USA wit this (like we seem to have to with so much else) where parents can be jailed for giving a 16 year old a glass of wine - that's OTT.

[wasonthelist]

I do expect to be told that an illegal substance will be made available to my child whilst on their premises so that I can make a decision.

As you have pointed out - it's (correctly in my view) not illegal in the context you describe.

[rwilkinson84]

The only thing that jumps to mind is that if you don't allow your DC to go to a party because there might be alcohol (and you are perfectly within your right to do so) it could end up causing bad feeling between her friends.
It sounds petty but kids can be like that. It's a pretty tough one but at the moment it sounds like your DC has the right idea by going and just not drinking.

[GraysAnalogy]

At 14 I was drinking on parks, I was asking strangers to buy my alcohol for me from the shop. I was putting myself in risky situations.

Would have been much safer sat at home with my friends.

Teens are going to drink, we can try to prevent it but it's not going to happen for the majority.

[bumblebee1234]

Its a tricky one you want to keep the trust with your daughter without coming across too over protective. Try and include her in the decision I'm sure she wont drink anyway out of fear of upsetting you. 14 is young to be drinking but you have to explain your feelings and the dangers of drinking. You don't want her to resent you if you turn round to her and say no you can't go and thats it. My mum was like that and I just misbehaved because I was curious and no one explained nothing to me.

[captainfarrell]

wasonthelist It is illegal to serve it to an under age child that is not your own.

[captainfarrell]

Correction. It is illegal to buy or try to buy alcohol for a minor but it's ok to give it to them once you get it home. Ridiculous!

[BigSandyBalls2015]

Difficult one this. I have two 15 year old DDs and I would say it all depends on the child and their personality, also their peer group. One of mine is sensible, hangs around with a group of girls/boys that are also a bit quirky/sensible, they're not into parties, drinking etc, she's tried various drinks that me and DH have had, but hasn't liked any of them. My other DD is bit more of a wild card, in with a group that are going to/hosting parties that involve booze, she's desperate to be seen to be 'cool' at these parties, and also seems to love the taste of alcohol, unfortunately. I haven't actually bought her any booze to take with her yet, but I'm getting to the stage that I'd rather she had a small alcopop or two or a couple of small beers that she agrees to drink there, than help herself to god knows what.

I wouldn't be happy with another parent providing alcohol without letting me know. I've been in this situation before, at a friend's bbq, where he's handing out beers to all the kids, who were only 14 then. Def needs to be a parent's choice.

I still think she's far more sensible than I was at that age though, drinking in the park with my boyfriend at 15, having sex in the bushes. Not that she knows anything about that!!

[captainfarrell]

I think you're right bigsandy it's def a peer group thing for my DD. But I keep reading 'just an alcopop' and a bottle of say Smirnoff ice contains 4.5 percent alcohol, they are not weak strength, they just taste weak. TBH I'd rather she had a drink that tastes of alcohol not soft drink. I think alcopops are dangerous.

[Ricardian]

It is illegal to serve it to an under age child that is not your own.

As you've corrected, no it isn't. It is straightforwardly legal for an adult to serve alcohol to a child aged over 5 on private premises. There may be other safeguarding issues, and it may be part of a pattern of behaviour that is regarded as problematic, but it not of itself illegal.

It's also legal for someone over 18 to buy wine, beer or cider on licensed premises to be served to someone aged 16 or over, provided it is with a meal, and enforcement of the 16 is weak. Hence, for example, no-one will hassle you if ask for a bottle of wine and four glasses when out with your teenage children. I think the assumption when the law was drafted was "pubs and offies are full of the feckless working classes, but naice restaurants are full of PLU", and the incidence of licensing disputes over serving wine etc with food to underage children is vanishingly small.

[Ricardian]

Certainly, Pizza Express have never hassled me over buying beer for my obviously-not-18 children.

[captainfarrell]

But it IS illegal to buy it for a minor to be drunk in an unlicensed premises but it is legal to serve it at home. Craziness!

[captainfarrell]

TYPO! I meant to be bought alcohol to be drunk NOT to be drunk.

[Ricardian]

But it IS illegal to buy it for a minor to be bought alcohol to be drunk in an unlicensed premises but it is legal to serve it at home. Craziness!

That isn't true either. The test is "private premises". Under 18 and drinking in public? No. Under 18 and drinking on licensed premises? Need to be over 16, can't buy it yourself, must be having a meal, can't drink distillates. On private premises, so long as you're over five, that's the end of conversation, unless other crimes are committed in the process. The law, rightly, sets a very high bar on passing ineffective, unenforceable legislation, recognising that (as with prohibition in the US) it tends to bring the law into disrepute.

[captainfarrell]

I understood that in a supermarket, you can be stopped from buying alcohol if they suspect you are buying it for a person under 18.

[captainfarrell]

www.drinkaware.co.uk/alcohol-facts/alcohol-and-the-law/the-law-on-alcohol-and-under-18s/

[Ricardian]

I understood that in a supermarket, you can be stopped from buying alcohol if they suspect you are buying it for a person under 18.

Yes, and there are endless threads in MN to that effect. Amusingly, Asda (owning by Walmart, who are notoriously conservative) do it more than Waitrose. It's become a bit of a thing, because of course not only is it perfectly legal to buy a bottle of scotch with your 13 year old with you, it's perfectly legal to crack it open as soon as you get home and all have a glass. There are people, some of them in trading standards, who want to make alcohol some sort of samizdat material, sold under the counter. I think most supermarkets have now calmed down on the topic, particularly as courts have proven oddly reluctant to pursue such cases.

[captainfarrell]

You seem to have a good understanding of the law. Do you know why it isn't ok to buy alcohol but it's ok to drink it?

[Ricardian]

Do you know why it isn't ok to buy alcohol but it's ok to drink it?

Because sale of alcohol is a regulated trade and therefore it is enforceable to place restrictions on that.

It would be laughable, and contrary to public policy to attempt to enforce legislation on what happened with legal object in private houses without an incredibly good reason for doing so.

In other news, your kids can chop up carrots for your dinner using knives they can't legally buy, can assemble Airfix kits using glues they can't legally buy and, at risk of opening up a whole other debate, can shave their faces or their legs or their armpits or elsewhere at 15 using razor blades they can't legally buy. Which of those do you want to get upset about?

[venusandmars]

I totally agree with you OP about other parents not giving your dc something that you may not give them at home - same would apply to an activity that you might not let them do, or being in a situation (e.g. let overnight at home) that you wouldn't agree with. It seems like it should be courtesy and common sense to ensure all other parents know about it, before it happens.

I also share concern that teenagers are 'taught' to enjoy alcohol by trying alcopops - you can't imagine how much of the alcohol industry budget was spent on developing and advertising sweet drinks which would appeal to young drinkers and would disguise the taste of alcohol. They don't do that without a good commercial reason - one which builds brand loyalty and keeps people buying alcohol. But disguising the taste does not disguise the effect that alcohol has on the brain, the heady feeling of intoxication, the feeling of being a little more confident, and the hope that another drink will add to that effect (which ultimately it doesn't). In effect we are also teaching our dc that every celebration, is only a celebration if it is punctuated with alcohol, and that in order to let your hair down and party, you need to have a drink.

I remember from parties in my own distant youth, and from my dc's more recent 'gatherings' that events where some alcohol was provided or permitted was viewed as a green light, and in addition to the few cans of beer or bottles of WKD there would be bottles of vodka. I know how good we were at being deceitful so that the parent(s) in charge didn't know about the vodka and how they would pride themselves on our 'sensible drinking' - when it was anything but.

I am not impartial or dispassionate, I have suffered for many years with an alcohol problem (now under control for the last 4 years or so). I wish my own parents had not introduced me to drink when I was young - I'm not blaming them, my drink problem is my own responsibility and I may have gone off the rails with my first legal drink at 18 anyway. In understanding my own problem I cannot see alcohol as anything except a toxic substance, one which had mood altering effects and which has the potential to damage our body systems as it processes it. I wish I had not given my own dc alcohol. They do not seem to have an alcohol problem but I can't understand why I would have willingly introduced them to a substance like that

[bumblebee1234]

All this talk about alcohol is making me thirsty. If it was my daughter it would depend on who was attending the party. If it was a girlie party then I wouldn't mind and they were drinking them alcopop drinks. If there were boys there then I would mind.

[Ricardian]

I totally agree with you OP about other parents not giving your dc something that you may not give them at home - same would apply to an activity that you might not let them do, or being in a situation (e.g. let overnight at home) that you wouldn't agree with.

I suspect there are parents who would regard a meat-feast pizza as the devil's work: vegetarians, people who keep kosher or halal diets, amongst others. I think that a parent who sent a questionnaire around to the parents of other fifteen year olds asking if it was OK to have pizza ordered in from Dominos would look quite odd. I'm not responsible for other parents' arbitrary hang-ups: it's reasonable to expect that when in someone else's house they will not be exposed to illegal or manifestly and immediately dangerous situations. Expecting other people's parents to share your moral compass isn't something you can enforce.

I know my children have been in houses where more is drunk than in ours, and in houses which keep strictly tee-total for religious reasons. Likewise they've been in houses which are vegan and houses which are pretty carnivorous. I would expect them to be polite and sensible in both settings. If you want to enforce your views on children in other people's houses, and have parents who don't agree with you single out your child for special treatment ("everyone else can have a slice of cake, but your mother thinks refined sugar is wrong so sorry, big strapping 15 year old perfectly capable of buying it yourself in Tescos, none for you") then (a) you're marking your children out as the weird kids with weird parents and (b) good luck when they go to university.

[HairSlide]

What does your daughter think? Does she want to try it? I think its worth having a conversation with her to see what she wants and is comfortable with rather than just banning her from going. It could be that she's not at all interested, but if she is then encouraging her to be honest and sensible about drinking might be a route worth going down.

I say this because my mum had a blanket ban on it, as did most of my friends parents. We used to put ourselves in all sorts of vulenerable situations- asking strangers to buy us alcohol and often taking alcohol from people we didnt know that could have been spiked or anything. Drinking outside left us open to all sorts of dangers- we'd drink near open water, were attacked and some of us beaten on a few occassions and older men tried to lure us to their flats to drink.

I don't know your daughter but I do think that at 14/15 alot of teenagers want to experiment with alcohol and introducing it safely where you have a say in what happens is definitely preferable to it going on behind your back in a situation you have no control over.