to wonder how the country will cope with hundreds of thousands more people each year?

[evilcherub]

If the UK is going to continue to have immigration of hundreds of thousands every year (which is more likely if we don't leave the EU) and the Tories apparently having no real interest in building more genuinely affordable homes (because lower house prices do not bring in votes for the Tories), then where are the millions of extra people and families going to live (when there is already a massive housing crisis and homelessness is going through the roof)? Also, what about all the extra schools needed, the extra hospitals (when at the moment they cannot cope and the Tories want to privatise them anyway), the jobs etc? Unless you are well off/bought your home years ago and have a well-established, well paying job, then immigration means extreme and expensive competition for housing, school places, healthcare, jobs etc. I just don't see it ending well.

Hilda
If you were there on holiday you were absolutely right not to expect them.
If you were there as a permanent or long-term resident I believe some EU countries would indeed provide a translator for you.
Not claiming to have an encyclopaedic knowledge of Europe-wide healthcare provision, however, so don't quote me on that.

Also, Apple being in a foreign country on holiday is not the same as being a permanent resident, however unpleasant your experience with the French healthcare system.

My French healthcare experience wasn't unpleasant, my UTI was

I'm sure that's true, but then again, it's a lot easier to pick up French when living in France than merely visiting.

Apple My implication is not that we've no right to expect this of anyone else, but to assume one rule for us and another for everybody else is arrogant and hypocritical.

NoItsAVegetable thank you, very enlightening.

I'm sure that's true, but then again, it's a lot easier to pick up French when living in France than merely visiting.

Exactly. And, as the article says, plenty still don't bother.

The article wasn't at enlightening to me..what am I meant to take from it?

Perhaps i could yake from it that the UK could as a nation feel culturally comfortable and do well in a super alliance of English speaking countries?

Apple My implication is not that we've no right to expect this of anyone else, but to assume one rule for us and another for everybody else is arrogant and hypocritical.

But Britain has no responsibility for how British people behave when they emigrate. These are just people with the freedom to make bad decisions.

Hilda, isn't that what Commonwealth is about?

Historically, wages and conditions only improve for working people when there is a labour shortage.

We have a vast glut of under utilised young people, many graduates, doing crappy jobs. Surely we should be training them up to fill the jobs needed in health and education?

Allowing a flood of cheap labour only benefits the wealthy who profit from cheap labour.

But then the working classes have been getting rather above themselves since World War 2 haven't they? All these crazy ideas about social mobility and home ownership. Time to put them back in their place.

Hilda

See my response to Apple above. That's what I take from it.

As for the super alliance of English-speaking countries, isn't that what the Commonwealth is supposed to be? You've got that already then

Cross-post with Martina

Well yes but We phased out trading alliances with new Zealand for example when we threw in our lot in with the old EEC. This is off topic for this thread so apologies as it's all in the news about EU membership atm so I crossed the line!

I think the key word in here is 'expectation'. The expectation that accomodation will be made for anyone not learning the language of where they live. If you go on holiday to a country outside of the UK you will possibly only be there 2 weeks, you may in that time if you are keen pick up a word or 2 but not a great deal and there would be no expectation on you to be fluent, but equally you couldn't expect everyone you come across in that country to have enough knowledge of your language to communicate with you. Fine, maybe use hand signals and a phrase book or if necessary someone can be brought to translate in say a medical or legal emergency.

If however you go to live in that country as a habitual resident you really should make attempts to learn at least some of the language, enough to get by in everyday situations. With immersion in the culture of the country after 5/10 years most people should be able to pick up enough to get by easily enough.

I speak my DH language because we use it at home and also because my inlaws don't speak any English, my DS does too. I've seen first hand the struggles people have when they go to the doctors or midwife and there are large delays when a translator has to be found. I've seen people struggle on buses because they haven't got the right money but they dont know how to ask for the correct ticket.

I don't approve of making a country your home and then not learning how to communicate, it makes things harder for yourself and others. And people shouldn't worry about embarassing themselves by making mistakes, most people are very helpful and will appreciate you making the effort to learn.

Apple

The EU has no responsibility for how anybody behaves when they emigrate, but plenty of people seem to blame any problem associated with migration on the EU.

It was not a surprising article at all. It's use of bloggers, is that the new journalism!

More like magazine vox pop..

Why is it inevitable?

British companies don't HAVE to employ cheap labour.

Migrants from outside EU well according to Dublin Agreement they need to register where they first set foot on EU soil. - Would be scrapped if we leave

If we leave EU then try to set a trade deal then we WOULD have to sign up to shengen etc.

Surely we should be training them up to fill the jobs needed in health and education?
Absolutely. But that's the job of the UK government, not the EU.

But then the working classes have been getting rather above themselves since World War 2 haven't they? All these crazy ideas about social mobility and home ownership. Time to put them back in their place.
This uppity working-class Northern lass has benefited greatly from EU freedom of movement, thanks. Not crazy at all.

If the people who originate and draft the laws don't answer to the voting public, why should they care what that public thinks of the laws they draft?

Totally agree. It's a pseudo-democracy where the public are far removed from what happens. To me that's not acceptable and is why I think we should leave.

Why should distant, unaccountable elites and lobbyists bring about legislation that hasn't been voted on in Westminster, yet supercedes our own laws which have? In the UK a new government can repeal a law which has been proven unhelpful or no longer what the country feels is best.

As you like, Hilda. I found it enlightening, and as a migrant myself I'm always interested in the rules, written and unwritten, of expat / migrant / whateveryouwanttcallit behaviour in various countries.

But now we're well off topic, so no more

Sorry to be grumpy.

The issues are a close to my heart, I am a lifelong language learner and have worked in EU countries and travelled a bit. It is just a bit more Brit or English bashing to my ears when I hear the soundbite/ refrain about language learning. The British are being logical in one way although it does harm our representation on the staff of European institutions..

Interestingly I saw an article on BBC site that said one of the things putting children off learning languages is harsh and inconsistent marking. And also some primaries are finding it difficult to access specialist teachers.

One of the things my DH says is that so much of teen/young culture is now in English that a huge incentive for teens abroad is learning English to access it. This is true of the music scenes etc. He said he learnt a lot of his English from lyrics off the back of records!

The EU has no responsibility for how anybody behaves when they emigrate, but plenty of people seem to blame any problem associated with migration on the EU.

The EU has far more to do with migration than Britain does its expat community. They're not even remotely comparable.

I agree with what you seem to be saying - that there's a thread of British society who would demand that immigrants speak English, but never bother to learn another language if they found themselves in the same position.

We disagree about whether this actually matters when it comes to the kinds of expectations the UK can impose upon its resident non-English speakers.

I like opera and operetta and it's helped!

They are just too niche in the modern world!

Allowing a flood of cheap labour only benefits the wealthy who profit from cheap labour

It also benefits the people doing the cheap labour, and saving up to either send money home or go back home with it.

Which is lovely for them, and who blames them? But is it the right things for our citizens?

Really?

Oh I see discussion has moved on, I also like the Opera, Love it actually.