to wonder how the country will cope with hundreds of thousands more people each year?

[evilcherub]

If the UK is going to continue to have immigration of hundreds of thousands every year (which is more likely if we don't leave the EU) and the Tories apparently having no real interest in building more genuinely affordable homes (because lower house prices do not bring in votes for the Tories), then where are the millions of extra people and families going to live (when there is already a massive housing crisis and homelessness is going through the roof)? Also, what about all the extra schools needed, the extra hospitals (when at the moment they cannot cope and the Tories want to privatise them anyway), the jobs etc? Unless you are well off/bought your home years ago and have a well-established, well paying job, then immigration means extreme and expensive competition for housing, school places, healthcare, jobs etc. I just don't see it ending well.

[AppleSetsSail]

the Tories slashing the Trade Unions and wanting us to work until the age of 75,

Living longer means working longer. Government can't change that reality.

[Myosotisbleu]

Leaving the EU doesn't mean those rights are lost, I would expect them all to be retained, and hopefully improved upon.

Well, one can always dream but with the Tories slashing the Trade Unions and wanting us to work until the age of 75, it seems unlikely to happen.

[StepintotheLightleave]

I think people confuse ( and its easy to do so) Posters moaning about too much immigration and blaming the immigrants themselves for that.

Too much immigration is nothing to do with the immigrants ( the legal ones) its about the government.

Is the Government acting in its countries citizens best interests by allowing open door immigration to the EU.

Looking at our young people, young teens, does it help them?

[Limer]

Key protections for workers that derive from European Directives are, amongst others : Paid holidays for all workers, Limits on the overall hours worked & compulsory rest breaks, Equal pay between men & women, Protection of employment on change of employer (through sales, privatisations, etc), Health & Safety rights, Equal treatment for part-time workers, minimum rights for pregnant women, Protection of young people at work, Equal protection for agency temporary workers, and so on...

A lot of this is not down to only the EU, improvements in UK workers' rights was begun by the trade unions and the EU has reinforced that drive. Leaving the EU doesn't mean those rights are lost, I would expect them all to be retained, and hopefully improved upon.

But I see workers' rights being eroded everywhere. Zero-hours contracts were unheard of before seemingly unlimited cheap labour arrived from the EU. And this cheap labour isn't just for unskilled work, there are thousands upon thousands of bright young EU graduates seeking their futures here. I know many UK people who put in extra unpaid hours, make themselves available during weekends/holidays, etc., all because they are terrified that they'll be kicked out in favour of some European who'll do the same job for half the money. The trade unions have literally been sleeping on the job and should be doing far more - some do seem to be waking up and smelling the coffee and recommending that their members vote for Brexit.

[AppleSetsSail]

Cannot help wondering who the hell is going to work in hostels, restaurants or as nurses, carers or cleaning staff if EU citizens are to be sent back home? For I have hardly met any young Britons doing so.

And this is at the heart of the matter. These people are just going to have to pay more money to get people to work.

Totally agree with you but then, if workers'rights are so appalling here, it isn't the E.U or its citizens' fault, is it?

But why flood the market with cheap labour and then try to impose all these regulations and tax credits to lift the minimum wage? That's doomed for failure. There is enormous market pressure working against low-paid workers right now, and no amount of regulation is going to fix that.

[Myosotisbleu]

These jobs need to pay decent wages. I don't see the sense in bringing in cheap labour from abroad whilst simultaneously getting the taxpayer to foot the bill for all the additional costs - housing, education, health, etc. No wonder our taxes are so high. There's a huge oversupply of cheap labour and the bosses are laughing all the way to the bank. Minimum wage and zero-hour contracts for so many jobs, it's scandalous.

Totally agree with you but then, if workers'rights are so appalling here, it isn't the E.U or its citizens' fault, is it? Britain has the most deregulated system on that matter in Europe. Sure, unemployment toll is fairly low as compared to continental Europe, but at what price? If Britain was to leave the Union, workers situation would even worsen as remaining means it has to agree to minimum rights set by Europe.

Key protections for workers that derive from European Directives are, amongst others : Paid holidays for all workers, Limits on the overall hours worked & compulsory rest breaks, Equal pay between men & women, Protection of employment on change of employer (through sales, privatisations, etc), Health & Safety rights, Equal treatment for part-time workers, minimum rights for pregnant women, Protection of young people at work, Equal protection for agency temporary workers, and so on...

[Limer]

Cannot help wondering who the hell is going to work in hostels, restaurants or as nurses, carers or cleaning staff if EU citizens are to be sent back home? For I have hardly met any young Britons doing so.

These jobs need to pay decent wages. I don't see the sense in bringing in cheap labour from abroad whilst simultaneously getting the taxpayer to foot the bill for all the additional costs - housing, education, health, etc. No wonder our taxes are so high. There's a huge oversupply of cheap labour and the bosses are laughing all the way to the bank. Minimum wage and zero-hour contracts for so many jobs, it's scandalous.

Fair wages would mean it would be worth taking those jobs. Unemployment's rising towards 2 Million, it shouldn't be a choice to stay workless.

[Myosotisbleu]

Which "admin" will chase payments for the cost of their education and the state benefits they'll receive? Which "admin" will chase payments to cover the cost of building all the housing and infrastructure they'll need? Can we also get this magical "admin" department to conjure up some replacement EU green belt land to compensate for all ours that's disappearing for ever under new developments?

Cannot help wondering who the hell is going to work in hostels, restaurants or as nurses, carers or cleaning staff if EU citizens are to be sent back home? For I have hardly met any young Britons doing so.

[Limer]

EU people coming to the UK shouldn't be a problem if NHS admin are chasing payments from their respective governments, why is this so hard so sort out!!! This should be a non issue.

Which "admin" will chase payments for the cost of their education and the state benefits they'll receive? Which "admin" will chase payments to cover the cost of building all the housing and infrastructure they'll need? Can we also get this magical "admin" department to conjure up some replacement EU green belt land to compensate for all ours that's disappearing for ever under new developments?

[Myosotisbleu]

Yes i am talking about non-eu but many brexiters are muddling it all up in there 'securing our borders' spiel.

EU people coming to the UK shouldn't be a problem if NHS admin are chasing payments from their respective governments, why is this so hard so sort out!!! This should be a non issue.

Exactly my point about politicians being dishonest. They make a mish-mash involving refugees, terrorists and EU citizens with gross scaremonging pre-Referendum tactics.

No offense, but regarding the NHS, Inthink the whole system should be modernised to prevent people from abusing it. Maybe it's because I'm used to all the hassle of the French administration, but Inwas gobsmacked when I registered to the GP here that nobody has asked me about a valuable proof of contributing to the Health system such ascpayslip, etc...

[Myosotisbleu]

Seriously, do you honestly think a Tory government would have refused to follow America into Iraq? That is nonsense. The Toried have always been far more war mongering and very much America's poodle.

Yes, obviously Tinckly. Same thing in France where Sarkozy "l'Américain" would have happily jumped in the bandwagon would he has been in charge.
Was only pointing that the immigration crisis that we now experience is mainly due to us mingling in Middle East, and not to EU citizens freedom of movement.

[AppleSetsSail]

Seriously, do you honestly think a Tory government would have refused to follow America into Iraq? That is nonsense. The Toried have always been far more war mongering and very much America's poodle.

Is that directed at me? Does this even matter? I hold Tony Blair to account.

[BreakingDad77]

Yes i am talking about non-eu but many brexiters are muddling it all up in there 'securing our borders' spiel.

EU people coming to the UK shouldn't be a problem if NHS admin are chasing payments from their respective governments, why is this so hard so sort out!!! This should be a non issue.

[TinklyLittleLaugh]

Seriously, do you honestly think a Tory government would have refused to follow America into Iraq? That is nonsense. The Toried have always been far more war mongering and very much America's poodle.

[Myosotisbleu]

I don't think anyone has said immigration would stop, just that the decisions about it would be made in Britain not Brussels.

But the decisions are still mainly taken from countries as nations, not imposed by E.U as some politicians pretend to. Otherwise, Britain would have been forced to welcome more refugees for ages and France wouldn't be bombing Syria. Truth is every european country is trying very hard to do as it suits them in a strategic Union.

I see so the EU is a tool any government of the UK can use against its own people. Even more reason to remove the stick.

It's not so much about EU being a tool than how dishonest politicians twist the truth about the Union. Benefiting from an institued system while criticising it to hide your own failures is no evidence of the wrongness of this system but only of your bad faith.

[AppleSetsSail]

And Blair should be dragged into the Hague and tried for war crimes. The fact that he lives and breathes fresh air is an insult to us all.

[AppleSetsSail]

^^But no one here is arguing against asylum seekers. As far as I can tell, we accept this as citizens of a country that has destablised the middle-east.

[Itinerary]

I don't think anyone has said immigration would stop, just that the decisions about it would be made in Britain not Brussels.

[Myosotisbleu]

Pre Blair, immigration in spite of all those thing you mention Augusta, was never such the burning issue it is today.

Pre Blair, Britain hadn't had yet this strange idea to follow lousy Bush on his crazy crusade against the "Axe of Evil", a move which lead to the turmoil in Middle East we pay the dreadful consequences today.

Immigration becoming a burning issue is indeed mainly due to the afflux of Middle East refugees Europe struggle to cope with, and not so much because of the opening of Borders to EU citizens.

[Limer]

BreakingDad77 - Do you mean non-EU refugees?

There are already legitimate ways for genuine refugees to come here.

Same as now, non-EU economic migrants coming here by whatever means would be illegal, so wouldn't be able to work legally or make demands on the state, and would be deported if/when caught.

[BreakingDad77]

Augusta I don't want immigration to stop. But I do want to control it. Bring in the workforce with the qualifications the country needs. Current EU regulations mean anyone and everyone can move here from the EU. That's what I want to stop

current EU -Dublin agreement means non eu must register at first point of entry. If we leave, europe can just let them all run through their countries to legitimately pile up in northern france. So non EU migration could go up.

[Limer]

Augusta I don't want immigration to stop. But I do want to control it. Bring in the workforce with the qualifications the country needs. Current EU regulations mean anyone and everyone can move here from the EU. That's what I want to stop.

[OnlyLovers]

Yes, Augusta. I don't get that either.

[StepintotheLightleave]

We will also be desperate to bring immigrants in to keep the NHS and various other essential services and industries going.


3 million people are predicted to come to the UK from the EU in the next few years.

We will certainly have less need for NHS staff, if it has three million less service users.

[StepintotheLightleave]

I really don't know why people have this fantasy that if we leave the EU immigration will stop

Its a fantasy many people share who are far more knowledgeable than I.

Pre Blair, immigration in spite of all those thing you mention Augusta, was never such the burning issue it is today.