to wonder how the country will cope with hundreds of thousands more people each year?

[evilcherub]

If the UK is going to continue to have immigration of hundreds of thousands every year (which is more likely if we don't leave the EU) and the Tories apparently having no real interest in building more genuinely affordable homes (because lower house prices do not bring in votes for the Tories), then where are the millions of extra people and families going to live (when there is already a massive housing crisis and homelessness is going through the roof)? Also, what about all the extra schools needed, the extra hospitals (when at the moment they cannot cope and the Tories want to privatise them anyway), the jobs etc? Unless you are well off/bought your home years ago and have a well-established, well paying job, then immigration means extreme and expensive competition for housing, school places, healthcare, jobs etc. I just don't see it ending well.

[MrBensMrs]

Does anyone really think if they vote to Leave the EU they will wake up surrounded by only British folks as all the Johnny Foreigners will have been rounded up and catapulted back to the mainland?

Equally many of our institutions - the NHS for one - could not function without economic migrants.

I do agree however that the lack of new home building, Buy to Let landlords, selling off council houses and other lovely Tiry policies have contributed to the growing housing crisis.

[mountaintoclimb]

Holy moly did I say it wasn't ok to emigrate for economic reasons? Don't be so presumptious.

[LaConnerie]

Yeah lets all stop voting Tory.

Because this country was running just tickety boo when Labour were in

[MartinaJ]

I wonder if anyone thinks that suddenly Britain will be all British again and available for British business only after Brexit.
How many British companies are actually British owned? Probably only Land Rover, Mini, Cadbury .... oh, hang on ...

[ThroughThickAndThin01]

I don't think it's about sending foreigners back home MrBens, more about stemming the tide coming in. 4 more countries queuing up to join the Eu from the poorer south- doesn't take much to guess many thousands will be heading to the currently prosperous north and to the uk in particular.

[MumOnTheRunCatchingUp]

Lol who has said Britain should just be for the British

Goady

[HildaOgdensMuriel]

It is OK to speculate on wether Gibbous and Martina work for the Independent, Guardian or BBC?

[LurkingHusband]

One vaguely wonders how the pioneers of the American west managed, as they trudged in their covered wagons (past lakes to the sound of Stiltskin ) ?

If we have 1,000 people (for example) hit our shores, why can't they build their own homes and farm their own crops.

When it comes to it, why can't we ?

If the answer is "the law doesn't allow us" then maybe, just maybe, there's a case for looking at that ?

[evilcherub]

MrBensMrs - Do you really think that everyone concerned with immigration and how their children will afford a home, a job paying enough to survive on or whether they can get into the local primary school is a little Englander? That is such a predictable response. And as for the NHS - yes, by all means bring in skilled workers for necessary jobs and a points system but the UK cannot do this with immigration from the EU at the moment, only with immigration from outside the EU.

[MartinaJ]

It is OK to speculate on wether Gibbous and Martina work for the Independent, Guardian or BBC?

It is absolutely OK, Hilda. Can't speak for Gibbous but a total NO in my case .

[AnneTwacky]

Also I think a bigger contributor to the schools/ hospitals shortage is the fact that so many have closed/ merged.
Eg. The site of the hospital where I received treatment after an rta is presently being turned into an Aldi. Very good for buying your tea, not so good for plastering broken limbs.

[OnlyLovers]

In my experience the people who can afford to take the piss... probably use private schools and hospitals too.

Not me. Sorry to disappoint.

We need more working-age people contributing to society and the economy; furriners fit that profile better than the ageing UK population.

We also need more housing that people can afford to buy and less housing being taken up by buy-to-letters.

We don't need to leave the EU.

[MinnieF1]

In answer to 'how would it help to stop voting Tory?'

They spend excessive amounts of public cash, flogging off public services to their mates - often at a huge loss). Then, their mates charge us (the taxpayer) more money to provide these privatised services so they can make a profit. This then means there's less money to expand our services. When services are privatised, they are run for profit. This means they are lead by the needs of the greedy fat cats, and not the needs of the public.

For example, privatising our schools will cost 1bn apparently. Why not use that 1bn to invest in what is already there? Or use it to build more primary schools?

There is enough money, it is just not being spent logically. Hence higher national debt during times of 'austerity'.

If I sound ranty, it's just because I hate the neoliberal ideology, I'm not lecturing anyone.

[MrBensMrs]

thickandthin good point - I thought that we had negotiated not to have straight open borders for new joiners though?

I think a points system should be in place - we need skilled migrants.

[HildaOgdensMuriel]

Apply Martina! You might get in!

[shovetheholly]

A lot of economic growth is predicated on an increasing population via immigration, in part due to demographic changes that mean there are fewer younger people paying (via tax) into a system out of which pensions, health care must be paid. In the city where I live, many of the documents about housing etc. recognise a need for a large number (thousands) of immigrants to keep up the standard of living for everyone.

[wheelofapps]

Martina you are FAR more accurate than you know about Scotland.

Under the 'Curriculum for Excellence' my kids are given Irn-Bru in School on St Andrews Day (and mocked by teacher for not having tasted it before).
They sing: 'Scotland my Country and my Land of Birth'.
Recent 'topics' included 'Find your Clan' and 'Inventors' (Einstein, brought up by my dd was 'not allowed as not Scottish').

A whole new generation of SNP clones is being raised. And Wee Eck gave 16 yr olds the IndyRef vote. My local High School is plastered with voting posters and in Primary the teachers wore SNP badges (as did many kids).

Welcoming to 'forriners' - only if you integrate fully!

[MrBensMrs]

evilcherub my comment was with regard to this get out of jail free card that is Vote Leave to allow Farage to lead us to the promised land - it's not going to happen - they don't even know what the UK will look like post leave - apart from the unicorns and cornucopias in every garden.

I think the ability to buy a house is less to do with immigration and more to do with but to let landlords, right to buy and a lack of new house building.

[mountaintoclimb]

What the fuck mountain. Why is that in any way an acceptable question? Baseless and idiotic

Why is that an acceptable response Paulanka?
I have no respect for anyone who can't take part in a reasonable debate without belittling the contribution of others.

[GibbousHologram]

I don't know why stopping voting Tory would help, but OP's blaming them for house prices. Thought I'd join in.

My answer wasn't entirely serious. I thought the giveaway would be where I said we should all stop having babies because the country didn't have room.

laconnerie, other political parties are available.

mountain, what's your point? Immigrants not allowed a say on MN threads now? How about when your DD is an immigrant elsewhere?

[Piemernator]

I get what you are saying and I write as the DD of a commonwealth immigrant who arrived when this country had a genuine labour shortage in the late 1950's.

I also agree with the poster who says that people who are the chattering classes tend to be able to afford to be all liberal about it.

[LaConnerie]

laconnerie, other political parties are available

Gibbous if only that were true.

[LurkingHusband]

A lot of economic growth is predicated on an increasing population via immigration

Whilst I have absolutely no time for Farage, I have to concede that he posed a very interesting question during the election, which is "why do we need to chase economic growth " ? He then suggested we dial down the growth in order to stabilise and let the infrastructure of the country catch up. Even if it meant wage deflation for a while. If you're not chasing growth (he said) you don't need immigrants.

On the basis I haven't heard anyone else suggest that (which may mean I don't mix in the right circles), it went curiously undiscussed.

Of course the other way of putting it, is to point out we have had immigration, and fuck-all "growth" for many, many years now ....

[PaulAnkaTheDog]

Why is that an acceptable response Paulanka?
I have no respect for anyone who can't take part in a reasonable debate without belittling the contribution of others.

We have very different ideas of 'reasonable debate' if you think questioning whether someone is an immigrant is an acceptable response to differing attitudes...

[NoItsAVegetable]

It is OK to speculate on wether Gibbous and Martina work for the Independent, Guardian or BBC?

No more than it is OK to speculate whether people holding the opposite view work for UKIP or the Daily Mail.