to report this to FB/primary school child protection officer

[MrsBlimey]

So I'm on FB and one of the suggested friends for me is an (only just) 9 yr old girl who is the same class as my kids at school. Was so surprised I clicked on it as I was shocked that a 9 yr old would have a profile and I wanted to make sure that there wasn't anything massively dodgy.

Turns out on the profile she says her date of birth is 10 yrs earlier than it really is (presumably so that she can create an account). Can't immediately see that there is anything massively dodgy (apart from that) on the profile but then again I'm not friends with her so there may be other bits restricted to just people she's friends with.

So, with my judgy pants well and truly up to my chest and almost keeping my neck warm, should I report this to FB?

Should this also (judgy pants working as a hat now) be reported to school, which is very hot at the moment on esafety issues with that class in particular?

Sadly I am reluctant to raise the issue with the child's mother personally as I (and many others) have been on the receiving end of unnecessary nastiness and unwarranted vitriol a bit like local vigilantism in the past, which lead to my own kids being bullied by her daughter and her friends in school.

Have no desire to seek revenge for the bullying by reporting the profile, btw, although I can see how that might be misinterpreted.

I am a teacher too (different school) and I have dealt with parents with similar concerns which were taken seriously by both FB and the school.

WWYD??

First post... long time lurker, sat on my hands countless times but this has finally got me to actually join in!
FB accounts created when the child was under 13... No, no, no. You may set up a PAGE for the child, but they should not have an account of their own.
Recently there has been a case (sorry don't know all the details)where a girl met up with a guy, and then whatever happened, his defence was that she had a facebook account for over 5 years, therefore as far as he knew she was 18.
Laws are usually there for a reason.

Many adults don't handle their own FB privacy particularly well, especially given the constantly changing parameters, which doesn't bode especially well for overseeing the privacy of children who are active online.

Interestingly, Facebook do say "Facebook requires everyone to be at least 13 years old before they can create an account (in some jurisdictions, this age limit may be higher). Creating an account with false info is a violation of our terms. This includes accounts registered on the behalf of someone under 13."

here

MrsBlimey, it looks as if they did at least investigate how to do it, by validating it and linking it to parents' facebook profile

sorry daily mail link:

Teacher - v interesting indeed. So many issues with validation though: how to validate that the parental account itself was genuine? Seems sensible to have shelved it imho.

I'm gearing up for a "In my day we played out on bikes until sunset" rant!

My DDs (she's now 18) school used to check to see if the pupils had profiles.

Schools will, or rather should, according to their guidelines, get involved if the young person has listed the school and is posting pictures of other pupils etc.

One of the Mothers, whose DD often had unsupervised access to FB etc wondered how/why her child was groomed (Police involvement, perpetrator caught).

It's a shame because it takes away the 'coming of age' excitement and unless completely supervised puts them at risk. There's another thread about 12 year old boys sending dick pics to similar aged girls.

The school normally asks that no pictures in the uniform is posted, also.

MrsBlimey,

Overall, I think it is an interesting and very difficult area - especially because for so many children (say 8-12 year olds in particular) their 'tech savviness' is so far ahead of their 'streetwiseness' and general maturity and understanding of risks.

One of the parallels I think about is one around alcohol - there are clear laws around sale, supply and serving alcohol to young people of specific ages, but parents have the freedom to allow children access to alcohol in their own homes if they wish - and teens have flouted the law and made mistakes around alcohol as a form of rebellion for generations!!

I do not believe for one minute that you are doing this for altruistic reasons, you just want to get back at this mum
the risks of her having a FB page a re infinitessimal especially if monitored by parents.

Cate - it's not about the previous history with the parents, thought that had been made clear much earlier in the post. Even if that were taken out of the equation, I'd still be concerned to report.

FWIW FB acted promptly and so has the school, so despite my initial hand wringing, I'm glad I made the right decision. Glad too that MN helped me to be more confident about taking that step and reassure me I was in fact doing the right thing.

Facebook is lazy, hence the COPPA compliance.

I would be fairly confident they've looked at creating an U13 platform & concluded it would be too problematic for not enough profit (U13s don't use credit cards so not that appealing to advertisers); doesn't fit their business model.

So (have another one on me Booming! ) they just put up a 'not for U13s' in their T&C - & quietly ignore their millions of 12yo users until they are reported.

Children need to be taught not to trust online strangers, just as they should be taught not to wander off with someone IRL just because they know what school they go to, activities etc from a photograph.

Dd1 is in the local paper this week, for example. Would she trust anyone she didn't know who greeted her online or IRL with 'ah you're Name & you were playing the Instrument at Event!'

I bloody hope not. She's most certainly been taught not to, by me and at school.

Cate - it's not about the previous history with the parents, thought that had been made clear much earlier in the post. Even if that were taken out of the equation, I'd still be concerned to report.

FWIW FB acted promptly and so has the school, so despite my initial hand wringing, I'm glad I made the right decision. Glad too that MN helped me to be more confident about taking that step and reassure me I was in fact doing the right thing.

cate, As the OP is a teacher, actually she does HAVE to report this in some form because it is her professional responsibility to do so - it is slightly different from being a member of the general public, but teachers (like social workers etc) have legal responsibilities to report such apparently 'minor' things that can be used to build up the whole picture around a child.

There are, sadly, all too many cases of children where each adult who had contact with a child had a tiny jigsaw piece, but the whole picture was only seen after something horrible had happened. Providing the tiny pieces is a legal obligation to professionals so that more pictures can be seen earlier, and thus tragedies avoided.

Oops posted twice, sorry.

Last but of first para should read "concerned enough to report".

You say it's not about the personal history with this girl, does that mean you intend to police FB for all the preteens in your circle?

"I bloody hope not. She's most certainly been taught not to, by me and at school."

I know. But when I showed my class a mock-up of an online message within a game saying 'We've played a lot together online - shall we share mobile numbers so that we can let each other know when we're online?' or similar, a fair few children's first thoughtless reaction was 'yes, I'd be excited about that, that would be great'. Yes, after a few moments of reflection, they realised it wasn't a good idea - but that first thoughtless moment was long enough to type a mobile number in and press 'send'

Captain, I think it is about being reactive rather than proactive for the OP. In this case, it was blatantly obvious that this child had a facebook account because it popped up as a suggested friend. I think the response would be different if she went searching for the names of other children in her child's class.

Similarly, if it is obvious that a child in my class has a FB account, then we as a school deal with it. But we don't go out searching whether every child has one.

No Captain: believe it or not I do have a life beyond all this in which my judgy pants usually stay well in the drawer. However, if a situation like this presents itself to me then I'm pretty sure (especially after my experience in this thread) that I'll do something about it. At least then someone will be doing something as its looks from here as if there are rather a lot of people who would 'walk on by' when this relates to the safety of a child. Given too that the school is concerned enough to take action, I'm bloody glad I have spoken out. It would be just be nice if more people felt able to do so too.

Oh I agree it's not risk free teacher.

My experience as a ks3 tutor, though, is that parents saying '...Facebook full of weirdoes, not for you young lady/man' to junior school children frequently results in child nodding, then going off to senior school, making new friends & setting up accounts on the down low.

Then I ring parents over online bullying etc & get 'oh no. She's not allowed Facebook!' - whilst I'm looking at a screen grab of the appalling vitriol their dd has been merrily deluging a classmate with.

Usually perfectly nice kids, too.

So are children not at risk by their parents sharing copious details about them on their own timeline?
Thinking about some of my own friends dc,a stranger could easily harvest a child's name, siblings and parents name , where they live, school and hobbies.In fact I think they would glean much more than from a 9 yo's tedious posts about Zayn Malik and Minecraft!

Thanks Teacher

It would surely make me into someone dodgy myself if I were to go actively looking for other kids.

"Then I ring parents over online bullying etc & get 'oh no. She's not allowed Facebook!' - whilst I'm looking at a screen grab of the appalling vitriol their dd has been merrily deluging a classmate with."

Oh yes, we get that. Most parents are completely unaware of what their child is doing online, IME as a teacher, and I am very aware of that as a parent of teens! Which is why we see an important part of our work as a school not only to educate children about online risks, but also to educate parents beyond the over-simplistic 'just say no' approach.

It's often interesting to see parents say that they keep a close eye on social media use, insisting they know exactly what's happening - right up to the point when something goes wrong, when it becomes "well, you can't guard them 24/7" etc, etc

I don't doubt I'll be told how utterly unreasonable I'm being, but personally I believe those age limits are there for a reason

"So are children not at risk by their parents sharing copious details about them on their own timeline? "

Yes, of course - a minor risk, but a risk all the same. And for children REALLY at risk, it is the thoughtless actions of such 'oversharing' parents that can put unrelated vulnerable children at risk. 'Here is Joanna with her new friend Jane Jones at the St Stupidity school Nativity last night in Blahtown" on a public profile - all unaware that Jane Jones has fled a violent parent, is living in a refuge and her whereabouts are not meant to be known.

Luckily, on the one occasion this happened to me as a teacher, other parents landed on the offending parent so hard that no harm was done and the picture was removed after only a few minutes without the school getting involved. But it is scary.

(So when parents complain about photo restrictions at school events, I always think about the debates we have as to whether X can take part at all because of the risk of someone posting their picture in exactly this way - and how that means X, already coping with much more than most children, is even further isolated)