To think the state pension is a benefit

[hettyGreek]

I've noticed alot of "The state pension is not a benefit" groups that have sprung up on Facebook etc.

I understand that these people "paid their stamp" and all that was asked of them. But this NI money was not put away in a saving account for them, it just went into general taxation. If it had of just been put away in a savings account the state pension would be far far less than it is at the moment and no triple lock.

Aibu?

No idea what the agenda is to try to change this well-established meaning of 'pension' is.

To perpetuate an inflated perception of the size of the welfare bill in order justify reducing said welfare bill by cutting anything that isn't a pension.

I think everyone knows how pensions work has to change and that is happening with auto enrollment etc but you can't suddenly take away pensions from current pensioners - just try and sort out the future.

However I don't get why bus passes / fuel allowance etc aren't somehow linked to pension credits or something as I do see those as a benefit. My parents think it's disgraceful they can get them and won't take free buses (get very strange looks from drivers when they pay) and give their fuel allowance to charity.

A bus pass is only a benefit if you claim it. Like most of my friends of my generation we have never claimed a bus pass. In fact, I don't really know how you would go about getting one.

I think that increaing the pensionable age because people live longer should be considered very carefully. If you look at the figures those who live longer tend to live in the south and are from more affluent groups. The poorest are dying much sooner and some areas like Scotland and Glasgow in particular die much earlier. Should they be penalised and get little chance of reaching pensionable age whilst the more affluent will live longer and enjoy a healthier old age.

You don't get the State pension automatically either - you have to claim it. I have no idea of how many don't claim it. Personally I can only think of one person who said he didn't bother, because he had a very good work pension.

It's certainly true that an average earner doesn't pay anywhere near enough in tax to cover the cradle-to-grave taxpayer cost of the handouts [mostly state pension but also child benefit etc] and public services that he or she receives.

Can that be right TFP? Does that mean the balance is made up from those earning or making above average incomes? Of course as a country we're steadily building up quite a deficit too.

I don't consider it a benefit.
It was set up for people to pay in so they would get a State pension therefore to me it is an entitlement.
You have to pay in for a set number of years to qualify for a full state pension.
You are not given an option whether to pay NI or not.

Those whinging about this don't know how easy or hard life was for people in the past.
I do voluntary work and the care homes for learning disabled CANNOT get staff. It is easier to live on benefits. It certainly wasn't easier to live on benefits when I was young. People worked. There was no choice or you lived off your DPs.

But everyone pays tax. Wealthy pensioners pay tax which feeds into the pot for everyone else (on money they've already paid tax on). Or they give money to their DCs which is rapidly paid into their mortgages and also pays tax. Or they hang on to it and it is used to pay care home fees or inheritance tax.

Unless they leave for Australia or something you will get much of it back eventually.

I thought bus passes were to get people out of their cars thus freeing up the roads!

I wonder if all those complaining about the "generosity" of the state pension are nearing or at pension age themselves?
I "should" have been retiring in a couple of years, 37 years ago we took out a private pension plan so my DH could retire at 60 at the same time. Guess what? Our private pension disappeared up its own arse into the pockets of the bankers and is worth bugger all and I now have to work for an extra 6 years.
DH left school and has worked ever since, I have also worked.

Perhaps we should just piss off to Switzerland when we turn 70 so you lot don't have to pay for us?
And what about the very elderly? Now they are expensive, what with illness and needing all that extra health care, bed blocking and the like. Perhaps government sponsored euthanasia for the over 80's would get rid of the deficit?

State pension is a benefit handed out to people by the government.

It comes from general taxation that was collected one and a half days ago.

So if you collect your pension on a Thursday it was collected from taxation this week to be paid out.

Just the same as all the other benefits paid out.

It's just the pension is the biggest amount of all the benefits paid out, around half of the total paid

If NI receipts had been invested over the years, they would I am sure meet pension payments. It is not pensioners fault that each Government simply spent them.
Local Government Pension schemes that actually have invested the money employees have paid in, are in surplus. And ones that were managed well, are estimated to be in surplus well into the future.

And unlike benefits, your pension is dependent on what NI payments you have made. Many, many women get way less than the normal state pension as a result.

I am in my 50s and unlike the poster above, do expect to get a state pension. I really can not imagine that elderly people who are not rich will be allowed to starve on the street.
I could sell our house, which would meet some of our costs as DP and I could rent a room in a shared house. But as we don't live in the South with ridiculous house prices, we would have to hope to live no more than 5 years after we can no longer work.
The average local government pension is about £4,000. Most government emplyees are employed by local government. They are your TAs, binmen, care workers and the like. They do not get big pensions unlike other employees. And their pension payments are actually put into a ring fenced pension scheme and are not paid out of general taxation.

Its part of the welfare budget so I see it as a benefit.

I don't feel the same way about it as other welfare benefits though. I think that like with some disabled people, pensioners don't have the flexibility or resource to plan and make adjustments to their lives in the way people who are unemployed or on lower incomes have the hope that their situation can change.

Hazymazy - Those with learning difficulties deserve to be looked after by those who want to do that job and not by those that are forced to. Although paying people a decent wage would help.

What is the point of this thread? Does it matter if the state pension is a benefit, entitlement, handout, prize or whatever else. It is a sum of money provided by the Government when someone who reaches the qualifying age claims it. What is wrong with it being called a benefit?

Yes we pay NI contributions towards the 'state pension' but they also pay for sickness, unemployment and maternity benefits. Do people who die before retirement age get a refund of their NI contributions to their estate? No! NI is just another form of taxation.

It would be easier to have just one source of taxation ie income tax but that would not be popular with people of pension age because they are not liable to pay NI contributions

It's just the pension is the biggest amount of all the benefits paid out, around half of the total paid
and this is because it is paid to a large number of people so of course it is! Remember these are the same people who paid taxes and NI over a working life and still pay TAX on their income over the PA
I give up so many of you just don't get it - Londoners benefit hugely from a bus pass - most of us don't, the wFA is £4 per week per household, TV licence only from 75
oh dear - I am repeating myself but the proposal to limit these add-ons to those in receipt of pension credit misses out those of us who paid into their own private small pensions and is simply unfair as those on PC (which is a benefit) already get lots of passported benefits - cold weather payments, warm front payments, council tax benefits, SMI - I could go on but you get my drift

What is the point of this thread?

Perhaps the OP will return and enlighten us.

So people are moaning that the government won't change anything because older people are 'more likely to vote'. Make sure you vote then.

There's a lot of nonsense on this thread with people suggesting pensions be paid from 75 or 80 years of age. Are people supposed to stay in work until then? Great idea. I wonder how long it would take people to start moaning about old people 'job-blocking'.

What a pointless thread.

Good point that Londoners benefit hugely from the free bus pass, and that many others do not.

It's earned even if it isn't hypothecated, so not a welfare benefit in the usual sense, no.

If NI receipts had been invested over the years, they would I am sure meet pension payments. It is not pensioners fault that each Government simply spent them.

Yes it is. Todays pensioners chose those governments and therefore are responsible for their contributions not being invested. They could have chosen to pay more tax instead yet decided no to. Instead they leave todays kids with a £1.4tn debt, sky high property prices, £60k of debt after higher education, later retirement than they had, ... need I go on?

You can't promise to pay a pension for the generation above to last the last 4 years of their lives, and then expect the generation that follows to pay you a pension for 18 years. The two promises are not comparable.

When I was young, parents got very little help. Many people my age are paying for young parents to get benefits and services, that we did not have access to.
That is the way it goes sometimes.

Besides we keep getting told with the obesity crisis that people will not live to a grand old age.

And what do you propose? Leave elderly people to starve?

Hazymazy - Those with learning difficulties deserve to be looked after by those who want to do that job and not by those that are forced to. Although paying people a decent wage would help

Yes, but you would be a bit more focussed if there wasn't the option to do nothing.
Sadly the houses are empty due to lack of carers, families are caring instead or those queuing up are in less suited accommodation.