to be cross that dd is repeatedly hurt under cm care

[wheresthel1ght]

Dd's cm is lovely. She is very sweet, buys the kids birthday/Christmas/Easter etc and is brilliant with endless activities, days out, toddler groups, parks, play enter, city farms etc.

However, yet again I have had to sign the incident book tonight because the same little girl has again hurt dd. This child is about 5 months younger than dd, a lot less verbal but seems to have real problems with sharing. Dd has an inch long scar by her eye where this child scratched her because dd had the toy she wanted, she has hit her, kicked her and other general toddler stuff. I have overlooked all of it and shrugged it off as kids being kids.

Tonight however I have collected dd and had to sign again because this other little girl has bitten dd. This happened about 1230, I collected dd at 230 and it was still bright red, as if just done, so it must have been one hell of a bite. In this instance the cm told me dd had wanted the toy that the other girl had and tried to snatch it, rather than say no the other girl has bitten dd. This is the first time cm has said that dd's actions have caused he response. Normally she is completely faultless which is a surprise cos she can be a swine at home

I know cm cannot watch every last second and I have told dd off for snatching but I am starting to get really cross that dd is being hurt. The scar is very noticeable and dd is still upset by it as she will see it in the mirror and get upset saying "X scratched me mummy"

Wibu to explain to the cm at I am getting quite cross about this behaviour from the other girl and that if something isn't resolved I will have to look for alternative childcare?

Barbarian - honestly I don't know. But I would like it to be dealt with more seriously than just laughing it off and a brief sorry. If it was my daughter doing it I would be mortified and would be making a point of the other parent knowing I was disciplining dd. I think she needs to keep a closer eye on them. This is happening in the daytime when she generally only has dd, this other girl and occasionally 1 other child. It isn't unreasonable when normally it is just the 2 of them to be paying closer attention to the one who is becoming violent

As a cm I do find it mortifying if a child is hurt under my care. I've only had a child bitten once (and it was by a non verbal child). I took the biter with me or put him in a (rarely used) playpen if I was leaving the room. I'd give a v short explanation of why 'i have to take you with me because I'm not sure you'll be gentle with x ' type thing. The parents did have a small complain, but I pointed out the only other option would be to take the bitten child, which seemed unfair and they saw the point.

I'd guess your cm is either embarrassed or desensitised (when you are with toddlers constantly you do get used to a certain level of pushing /snatching etc, despite your best efforts) to what is happening, or that she is lulled into thinking it's stopped if there are weeks between incidents and agree you should have a word.

I'd send your cm a text, or say at drop off that you'd like to meet with her tonight when you collect dd to discuss strategies she has in place to stop incidents between the 2 children. Then you definitely will have the conversation and she has time to seriously think about it all and prepare.

I think you've handled it brilliantly. I too hate confrontation and have anxiety so I know where you are coming from!

I'd be more annoyed about this than if my child was falling over tbh - all kids fall over/ bump themselves now & again, especially if they're out & about all day, I'd expect that, but to be hurt by another child on a regular basis is not on, and far more traumatising for the child ( I'd imagine ) your childminder needs to take this more seriously.

Thing is Op, 'laughed it off' and 'shrugged it off' are two expressions you use about your own reactions. The Cm may well be following your lead a little here. You need to let her know that you've reached a kind of 'tipping point' in the last few weeks where you feel things have gone too far. As I said in my previous posts too, it really can be difficult to completely prevent these incidents even when you 'only' have two to watch. I struggled and I never, ever left the children unsupervised.

Haven't rift but just to say I had similar last week when my child was bitten at cm and still has a bruise 5 days later! This child bits regularly but is very small so limited amount that can be done. However my cm has spoken with other parent who is going to speak to hv for advice and cm has come up with strategy to try and prevent future incidents. If I were you I would give copies of your photos to cm and ask for her to show the other parent. Maybe they don't really get the level of damage being inflicted on your DD. It would be a shame to move her if she otherwise loves it, so I think as others have said would be good to try and find a resolution before considering that. Good luck

My eldest DC is 21 and has a scratch on each cheek as a souvenir of his nursery days - 2 different kids. I was really a annoyed the DC were so casual about it! The problem is scratches and bites happen in the binlk of an eye and realistically there is nothing to do to prevent it.if you move to another setting you will likely encounter it again

at the photo's

I wouldn't be laughing that off anymore.

Agree with pp ask for a quiet word re supervision etc.

At that age, yes she bloody should be watching them at all times!!

What is she doing to get the goods parents to prevent this? At what point will she express that their dd needs to find another cm?

You need to get your dd out of there.

But Hissy she was watching them. She was right there when the bite occurred. These things happen in the blink of an eye. It should be taken seriously but it may still not be preventable.

This sounds like a thread full of people who have never had to deal with behaviours!

It is very difficult to stop biting (or shoving) if the children are interacting as it happens very quickly - unless you have the body & arms held a quick swipe or bite can happen when you are stood next to children.

From a toddler point of view there is no difference between biting & shoving. It's adults who see a big difference.

So this is not going to be easy to fix. The cm could look at ways of increasing communication for the younger child -that would be the most likely way to sort the problem - but that's for a discussion between her & the parents really & realistically it's likely neither the parents nor the cm have the knowledge/skills to do that. Biting can stop as fast as it starts so it may not be a long term issue.

Please note I have never had a biter or pusher or grabber so no personal interest in this (well not a toddler age anyway, mine were all rather passive ) - but I have worked a lot with extreme challenging behaviours.

Talk to the cm but be aware that one person with a group of toddlers is unlikely to be able to stop biting before it happens. She could have a think about why it happens (is it always over sharing?) & maybe think of a way to reduce frustration around that. If your dd is being specifically targeted she could look at separating the two children physically (not always easy I know). Or she could support communication of the child if she has the training to do so.

All in all it's not easy as there is no simple answer. If you move to a larger setting with a biter the bites would probably be shared out more but any setting can have a biter & it's hard to deal with and of course there are other issues with larger settings.

Ooh neither of those are good.

For the scratch, I'd get bio oil or rosehip oil onto it regularly and it will fade. If it's any consolation, DD1 administered a similar scratch to her OWN NOSE at the same age and it looked like that. I was gutted as it was kind of my fault as her nails needed to be cut and I didn't want it to scar forever. It was a little bit visible for about six months but then totally went away.

I don't think you should remove your daughter as in all other respects, it sounds like a lovely setting and a good bond between a CM and her charges is pretty irreplaceable. I found, the one time I had an issue with ours, I just said, "I'm a bit worried about the effect that x is having on DD1." and we just talked about it. She then sent me the loveliest long text when she'd had time to think about and laid out how she was going to handle it.

DD1 had only been with her for about four months at that stage, and we were with her for 2 very happy years until she stopped childminding. We have a wonderful nanny now but still miss our CM dreadfully. Punchline is: in my experience, you can talk about these things in a really non-confrontational way and it can actually HELP the relationship as it sets out a framework for dealing with issues in the future.

It sounds like the CM genuinely cares for your DD so I'm sure she'll want to resolve it as best she can.

OP, another thought. How long has your DD been with her? Have you talked about discipline methods? That might be a way in....if she's been with her since she was a baby, then the discipline methods would need to be different now.

Our CM and I had conversations about that so that there was consistency between home and her setting (she adopted some of my methods and I adopted some of hers). Not so much of an issue with DD1, absolute requirement with DD2

Thanks for everyone's comments.

I have spoken to cm this morning as there was just us as I was later dropping dd off. I have explained that whilst I understand there was nothing more she could have done as she was already stood there and these thin ha can happen so fast, that we adore her and it is a heartbreaking situation, but have said that actually I am quite cross and upset about the fact this is twice in 3 weeks where she has been physically hurt. I have said that whilst it would be a last resort i have to think of my dd and her safety. So have said as much as I hate issuing ultimatums when she is bloody amazing if dd gets hurt again by this girl I will be asking her to either give notice to the other child or I will have no choice but to remove my dd from her care.

I actually feel physically sick over this.

Dd has been with her for 14 months and this other girl for less than 6 months.

And to the poster saying because I laughed it off over smaller things and cm is following my lead - over pushes and shoves yes I have as that is normal toddler behaviours. Physically harming my child with a deliberate act that has left marks and scars is a whole other level and undid not laugh those off.

Oh dear. I think you were absolutely right to speak to the childminder. I don't disagree with saying that if the situation continues you may need to look elsewhere. But I'm not sure an ultimatum is the way to go. You really have no right to suggest she gives notice to another child or to ask her to choose between you and another family. It's unnecessarily combative. I am very open to feedback /criticism but if someone issued me with that kind of ultimatum I would probably just give notice I'm afraid.

How did the childminder respond? Did you ask her how she was planning on dealing with the situation?

I'm a childminder, if I'd had these incidents happen with me, I'd have a plan in place to try to stop them. Children never left alone together etc but they do happen in the blink of an eye sadly.
I would understand what you'd said this morning, and I think you've been very understanding.

My friend was asked to remove her son from a CM's care by the CM because he kept hurting other children.

Friend was devastated but it kick started her into looking at why he kept hurting other DC. It turned out he had developmental delays. I don't think OP was wrong...she said that she'd be happy to keep using the CM but not if the other child hurts her DD again.

That's fair enough.

I did ask her what could be done but she didn't really have an answer but she was put in the spot and I guess she wasn't expecting my comments to be as firm today. She was lovely, said she understood and I was right that dd's safety needed to be my priority.

What happens next, not sure. I have left it that I won't take further action unless it happens again so hopefully she will speak to this other child's parents and explain how upset I am. I have been as understanding as I can be and said I appreciate that a lot of this is the child not being able to express her frustration, but that she need to be helped to learn better ways to express that.

She really should tell her parents. One of my DC was hurt at nursery and the other parents were spoken to about it.

You really have no right to suggest she gives notice to another child or to ask her to choose between you and another family. It's unnecessarily combative

I tend to agree. Sorry OP.

I hope it all gets sorted.

I have any suggested it, I have said I don't want to have to do that.

Well, it's a fine line. Realistically the cm will know that op removing her child is an option if this doesn't stop, and that the only definite way to stop it is to remove the other child from the equation. Both the op and cm know this, but unfortunately social convention doesn't agree that it should be so baldly stated.

Common practice is to say something like 'Well if it doesn't stop.... .... you know, we'd have to consider what to do next. I mean, if the other girl is still here then there's no guarantee that it will stop .'

Frankly I prefer the op's approach as it is straightforward and clear of intent and less passive aggressive but there you go.

Please let us know what happens later op.

As much as I can see year ur point very young children go n and out of phases of pushing, biting etc, it could easily be your child next month. Removing your child because of this seems ridiculous, your next cm or nursery will more likely than not have a similar situation. It was also completely unreasonable of year u to give the ultimatum, in principle if I was the cm I would choose to keep on the other child over yours.

Also 2 incidents in 3 weeks cannot be described as repeatedly. If it was happening repeatedly it would be daily. I'm sorry but some tussle is to be expected during toddler play.

Twice in three weeks? Oh I thought it was more than that. Is the cm stopping other incidents? I assumed the othet child was baring their gnashers daily.

I think at that level of incident you're going to risk having the same wherever you go if ages are mixed. (I'd expect fewer incidents amongst older children, although if there are any they're likely to be more complex to sort out).