To not sell a potentially £million plus property for £200,000?

[InheritanceDilema]

Got a really sticky situation and need some advice.

FIL has died and Dh and BIL have inherited his house and small holding. We are not local and do not wish to live there. It's BILs dream to live there and he wants to buy us out and will happily pay us half of the £400,000 valuation of the small holding inc the house.

There are eight acres of land and I genuinely believe that planning permission could be got. The fields are in the middle of a village, so surrounded by built up areas/houses on all sides. Obviously if planning permission was gained the value of the land would be a lot more.

Bil has no interest in planning permission or making any money. He wants to live in his childhood home surrounded by goats, chickens and gooseberry bushes living a River Cottage dream. Dh doesn't want to rock the boat and doesn't know what to do.

I know if we did sell it we could put a thing on the sale saying if BIL did in the future get planning permission we would be entitled to more money. But I know BIL wouldn't ever seek planning permission. He won't even consider only having some of the land and planning permission for the rest of it. He wants a couple of ponies and says he needs all the land. I don't want to kiss goodbye to a considerable amount of money just to keep the peace.....we're not that well off. BIL owns 4 houses and already has a fantastic pension as well as rental income and his current house is worth half a million. We're in a terrace with no other houses and while £200,000 is a lot of money i don't think it's fair that BIL expects us to let him have his own way.

I'm another one on "Team OP".

Of course it's your business if your family is being done out of (potentially) a large amount of money.

Get a proper valuation, and place a covenant on the sale to BIL whereby any profit realised from future sale has to be split. Or insist on renting it to him.

BUT leave DH to deal with BIL directly - this is where you do need to keep out of it.

Presumably it has to be though - if it forms part of the estate of FIL ? Even if it hasn't been done yet?

Firstly in all cases like this you should get at least 2 valuations, he has chosen one which means your husband is able to choose another, see what it comes out as.

Secondly, if it's farm land then it's very unlikely it can ever be used for residential properties, as I'm building more, so it's unlikely to worth anymore than what it's actually worth.

I do think your being a bit greedy, but I also think it's worth checking out another valuation so you both know and feel comfortable with his value. You are then able to ask if it's likely to be able to be granted other permissions or you can call the council and ask them directly yourself.

If you are right and it could be worth more, which If what you tell me is right than I don't think if can be given planning, then that's when you all need to sit around and talk, it would totally be my dream the sound of tha house, so I get your brother in laws ambition, however if there is the protial to earn significantly more he may well be up for selling it and buying another farm for more money down the road, However he may be sentimentally attached to the house and if that's the case I think it's selfish to force him to loose out in that house because you want more money.

I think communication between you all is key but also its boils down to between your husband and his brother. But do get a second valuation, most estate agents Will tell you if there are obvious ways of making the most money from a property.

However if your right it may stay unsold for years, if will end up costing you and which if you is going to be prepared to trump up the money for Bills, planning and maintenance in the meantime?

Good luck

I think this thread sums up why some issues cannot be rationally debated on the internet. DH and I discuss all our financial matters - we are a partnership so having an opinion does not mean you are 'sticking your nose in'.

The only logical and proper thing to do is to seek legal advice which will be impartial and factual not based on 'dreams' family ties and being happy with whatever BIL deigns to offer you because he 'won't entertain' anything else.

I love my siblings but my DH and my DC will always, but always, come first. And you can bet that your BIL will be putting his DC's interests ahead of yours.

It's good you're being interested and sharp. Imo 200k is a life changing amount of money - it's more than most people's homes cost - but that is irrelevant because you may be entitled to more. I hope you get your fair share of it.

OP - you sound very sensible to me. In your shoes, I'd be doing everything I could to ensure that my husband wasn't being shafted.

Unfortunately however "grabby" seems to be the latest buzzword on here at the moment.

Cant believe someone has mentioned food banks. What the fuck!

I say its fair enough to get planning permission then get it valued. Or could you look at a chartered serveyors (if that's the correct thing) to ask what they think the value would be with planning permission. Then split that.

Or split the land from the house. Half the house and sell the rest for planning permission. BIL can buy it at market value if he wants his childhood home and farm. He can sell his expensive house that he won't be living in to do so.

I don't think it does have to be valued for probate.

When my dad died I inherited a third of a house. All three beneficiaries were executors....I was one executor obviously. We did probate ourselves rather than pay a solicitor. I got 3 estate agent valuations. They weren't aware of the situation, I just told them I was thinking of selling the house and wanted it valued. But I did get them in writing and show them to the other two as I was at the time planning to buy them out.

Also, if this was a man posting this in a male dominated forum then he'd be more likely to get straight forward, unbiased advice.

But a woman discussing money? How terribly vulgar.

Oh and there's a lot of farmland round here (on outskirts of the village) which has got planning permission for building. Our village is up in arms about two different housing estates where planning permission has been gained on greenbelt meadows, over 400 houses. I assume it's greenbelt, it's certainly extending the village boundary and has been farmland for as long as I remember. Seems that planning laws have been relaxed. One estate was refused pp by the council but the developers appealed and won.

Can't believe posters saying the inheritance is none of op's business ! My dh is due to come into a considerable inheritance when fil's house i is sold soon. He has involved me in decisions/ what we will do with the money etc because we are a partnership. His siblings have also had some disagreements over the sale of their late dad's home and my opinion has been valued in how things should move forward too. In the past we as a couple with kids have lost substantial amounts of money on our first home abroad when prices crashed and together have faced hard times and spent nights awake worrying about unexpected bills and high mortgage payments. Now that we will soon be financially ok for the first time in 20 years, of course my dh wants to inolve me. When my df gave us the deposit for our house to get us on the housing ladder as prices were spiralling out of control, he didn't specify it was just for me, it was a joint gift for dh too, all money is shared.

OP you are not being grabby and please talk to your DH. Sounds like he is unsure and thinks he's going to lose out, and most likely wants you to talk to him about it so he's not got confused feelings around his father dying, loyalty to his brother but losing out on a lot of money intended for him. He will feel greedy for thinking that and confused,

I think you would have to get it valued for probate if it's likely to be over the inheritance tax threshold, otherwise the probate office may what to value it themselves if they think the figure you give could be inaccurate.

OP. I think you should get it valued and get a covenant drawn up to say that if the land is sold for increased value that your H gets half of it. I've seen that done before. BIL may change his mind in the future and you would feel sick if he then got several million.

I can see it from your BIL's point of view too. I live next door to my father and have horses on his land at the moment. I adore the smallholding. I hope to be able to stay here forever. I'd hate to see it split up or built on. It would break my heart. It's my childhood home. A very special place. And I wouldn't want anywhere with much less than 8 acres for my two horses. My brother, on the other hand, moved away and doesn't give a stuff for it. Hopefully my parents have done their wills well enough and I can stay, whereas my brother will get my mother's house in the village.

However, that said, OP must get proper valuations and speak to those valuing about how much the land would be worth if planning were to be granted. Also speak to local planning depts about the likelihood of planning being granted. Obviously if planning was likely or the other valuations were much higher then BIL will have to offer more, possibly quite a bit more. But if he has other properties he could probably sell them to achieve his dream of staying at the property and keeping the land. In my position, if I had more property I'd sell it to stay where I am.

I can't believe some of the amateur dramatics on here, really people, if a grown woman can't ask for financial advice without being classed as grabby and entitled well it's a fucking shame.

And how do some of you work your marriages, because I know that me and my DH are a team, and all decisions and major events are discussed and debated, and sometimes argued about, but we most certainly ARE each other's business, but after 25 years wed, what do I know??

Stop being so naive people, OP is doing exactly the right thing gathering all the information about the potential for the land. If she came on here in a couple of years time saying BIL had sold the land for £1m+ and DH had only had £200,000 we'd all be trying to help, so why is this any different??

Good luck OP

Yes, but Honey, I'm sure your DB would feel a little aggrieved if he sold you "his" half for peanuts and you then got planning permission on the land and sold it for $$$.

Not that I'm suggesting for a moment you would...but you can see how others might.

This man, who has form for his sleight of hand, has got someone to value the property and is insisting that his brother accepts half of what he says it's worth. He won't consider splitting or sharing (I bet he won't! ).

And the Op is the one accused of being greedy and grabby?! Really?!

Op, you are most certainly right to back up your DH's caution.

My avaricious cousin did something similar - oh, it was her life's dream, she always wanted this item of my grandad'a when he died. She was so keen on it, she sneaked over and packed it up before he was cold in his grave.
Then she sold it. For a substantial amount

Not convinved by your BIL's River Cottage fantasy, either.

YABU. I agree with IthinkIamsinking, but I think a good compromise would be to do what SingingSamosa suggest.... "...take the £200K and add a covenant to the sale stating that if planning permission is granted and the land is sold, your DH is entitled to a share of the land sale proceeds."

Plus please be aware your DH and BIL have lost their father.

I don't think op wants to sell the acres and build on them - just worried that bil may want to in future years and then bil will be much better off and op's dh will get nothing

Hence worth getting in writing that if pp does get given
That the money will be split 50/50

You aren't well off so you should understand the value of £200,000 surely? - it's not your families property, it's your husbands - I'm guessing you were never close family since you're so willing to upset the apple cart. Can't help but feel a hint of jealously from you towards your brother law because of his other property, take the £200,000 and go make yourself some more money!

OP, if you want to get a professional valuation done, look at the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors website and find a surveyor near you (someone else mentioned a 'Red Book valuation' this is what they will do). An estate agent may not have the right skills to value land with development potential.
Another body you can look at is the Central Association of Agricultural Valuers.

Professionals accredited by these bodies are bound by a code of practice to give you an unbiased valuation. Your DH and BIL could jointly instruct a valuer

Land can be worth a very wide range in values. Round here an acre of arable land could be worth say £10k, but equestrian/amenity/smallholding land might be worth £15-20k for an acre. All those values can go out the window if there is hope value.

If your DH is unsure what to do, more information may help?

I think you've had some unnecessarily harsh treatment on this thread OP. Yes, it's desperately sad that your DH and his brother have lost their father. However, I think the long-term fallout of your husband failing to get unbiased professional advice could taint his relationship with his brother forever.

Given the backstory, I wouldn't trust your Bil either. He's got form for pushing your husband into doing what he wanted over an inheritance, and it looks like he's doing the same again. Why wouldn't he, when it was so successful last time? He got a free house which climbed in value, plus a free twenty grand thrown in. And his mate has given a conveniently low valuation on FIL 's property - what are the chances?

I don't like the sound of BIL refusing to entertain anything other than buying your H out- it isn't his decision to make. Your husband doesn't have to do what his brother tells him.

Your husband needs legal advice about his options (all of them, not just the ones which suit Bil) and several more valuations.

"We couldn't afford to buy BIL out."

"BIL won't entertain the thought of Dh and him keeping half each."

Well in that case, they cannot agree, therefore the only other course of action is to sell on the open market and divide the proceeds.

Couple of things, first.

• Technically, it is in both their best interests (if selling on the open market) to maximise their profit by maximising the property value before they sell. e.g. by applying for outline planning permission first.

• Bil could bid/put an offer in to buy along with every other interested party, if on the open market.

• If he planned to do that, it wouldn't be in Bil's best interests to maximise their profit by maximising the property value before they sell. That would potentially push up the price he had to pay your DH. To 50% of the million you thought? Probably ... maybe more. 8 acres isn't a big amount for agricultural purposes. But it's a huge amount for building purposes.

Maybe your Bil is genuine, in that he simply wishes to live out his days in the family home, however no matter how genuine, he is potentially asking his brother to walk away from hundreds of thousands of pounds, to facilitate that wish.

Clearly there is a potential conflict of interest here. No matter how close they are, no matter how trusting of each other they are, the right thing to do is make a decision based on all the information.

I think, as a first step, your DH should have a consultation hour with a property lawyer.
(Maybe also have an informal chat with the applicable Council too. Establish whether the land is/isn't within the area's development 'envelop'.)