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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not sell a potentially £million plus property for £200,000?

507 replies

InheritanceDilema · 10/04/2016 20:34

Got a really sticky situation and need some advice.

FIL has died and Dh and BIL have inherited his house and small holding. We are not local and do not wish to live there. It's BILs dream to live there and he wants to buy us out and will happily pay us half of the £400,000 valuation of the small holding inc the house.

There are eight acres of land and I genuinely believe that planning permission could be got. The fields are in the middle of a village, so surrounded by built up areas/houses on all sides. Obviously if planning permission was gained the value of the land would be a lot more.

Bil has no interest in planning permission or making any money. He wants to live in his childhood home surrounded by goats, chickens and gooseberry bushes living a River Cottage dream. Dh doesn't want to rock the boat and doesn't know what to do.

I know if we did sell it we could put a thing on the sale saying if BIL did in the future get planning permission we would be entitled to more money. But I know BIL wouldn't ever seek planning permission. He won't even consider only having some of the land and planning permission for the rest of it. He wants a couple of ponies and says he needs all the land. I don't want to kiss goodbye to a considerable amount of money just to keep the peace.....we're not that well off. BIL owns 4 houses and already has a fantastic pension as well as rental income and his current house is worth half a million. We're in a terrace with no other houses and while £200,000 is a lot of money i don't think it's fair that BIL expects us to let him have his own way.

OP posts:
MidniteScribbler · 11/04/2016 00:57

If the BIL is so financially well off, why hasn't he set up his smallholding already? Is this the first you've head of this plan, or is it something he has been talking about for ages? It does sound a bit dodgy to me.

I think you need to get an official valuation, as well as several real estate valuations of what the property would sell for now, get 50% of that from BIL. If he is trying to be fair to his brother and really wants to live in the property, then he can have no objections that that.

Then just let it go. You can't go back to old properties and decide that they've increased in value and you have a right to it. Sell it now for an amount that you are happy with now, then even if does sell it to a developer later, then that is no longer your concern.

MargaretRiver · 11/04/2016 04:30

Don't tell your DH you have no opinion
He's asked for your advice so of course you need to tell him what you think

Anything that has the potentially to massively affect your children's future is of course your business

Suggest the covenant or keeping the land part in 50:50 ownership

If BIL won't go for that then you have your answer
This is not about his rural retirement or anything short term
It's about his children's future financial security

And if their late father wanted to advantage one set of his DCs over the other set, then he would have written his will that way

MargaretRiver · 11/04/2016 05:01

DGCs not DCs

MartinaJ · 11/04/2016 06:12

Somewhere out there is a thread about a greedy SIL who cared fuck all about her FIL but wants to benefit from his death by destroying an idylic property with a busy estate. Btw., are you ready for all the hassle of a planning permission etc.? Who's gonna do it, your husband against his brother's will? Do you have money for all the fees?

MidniteScribbler · 11/04/2016 06:22

Don't be ridiculous Martina. The OP is looking at the actual value of the property, not what BIL wants to pay for it. If the BIL doesn't want the property pulled apart for an estate, then he can pay a fair market rate to keep the property for himself as a smallholding.

Pooka · 11/04/2016 06:58

An outline application for planning permission achieves permission in principle for development but is less expensive in fees and detailed drawings aren't required.

I have splinters from sitting on the fence. Bad feeling about developing family land. But someone will, eventually (even if it's someone the Bil eventually sells to, his children, whoever). So why not now?

Jessbow · 11/04/2016 07:00

For heaven sake, get the property and the land valued separately.
Let b in Law buy you out f the property - for less than £200k presumably, and keep ownership of half of the land.

Bro in law doesn't want that?.............. well, it isn't all about what B in Law wants is, it? No need to charge him rent for the land, its all his to use to realise his dream, you just own half of it.

KeyserSophie · 11/04/2016 07:08

I'm inclined to see the OP's point. The BIL doesnt get the rights to live an idyllic life and keep a pet pony at the expense of his brother's inheritance and there is potentially a huge difference between the "as is" value and the "with planning permission" value. It seems as though BIL is trying to rush a decision and at the very least, the OP's DH should seek an alternative valuation, both as is, and an indicative value with planning permission. If the valuation differential is significant, then discussions will have to be had.

That said, this has to be the discussion between brothers. Other family members cant get involved.

LittleRedSparke · 11/04/2016 07:16

I think the op wants a fair settlement for her family.

Is it fair that the bil gets a lot more because he told ops dh a lie about valuation?. No, it's not.

Should the op sit back and do nothing and let the bil (possibly) rip off his brother? My priority is to my dh and DC, surely op is the same?

junebirthdaygirl · 11/04/2016 07:35

have had situation in my extended family where a settlement was made to a dsis and dbro kept house and land. Good few years later bro sold land for a major road and sis came back for more money. Bro decided to just give so never went legal. I would go with adding a condition to the sale of getting extra money if goes to housing later. Do.nt let this go legal as have seen hundred thousand go on legal fees here in a family situation and it's dreadful. Ye could end up with very little.

diddl · 11/04/2016 07:45

BIL doesn't need to own all the land to keep a few chickens on it, does he?

He can rent his brother's half?

At the very least your husband needs to not give into his brother just for the sake of it.

Yeahsure · 11/04/2016 07:46

There is nothing grabby or greedy in simply making sure this inheritance is fairly shared.

The more I think about it, the more I think it likely he intends to eventually sell on the land 5/10/15 years into the future.

As a pp said, when they want money for university, private schooling, property downpayments for their own kids, who in their right mind wouldn't take a mill or two from a property developer if that was on the table?

OP I think the best route is to get the covenant drawn up so that if the land is sold in future he and your dh get half each. What is greedy or wrong about that? If he never sells it, fair enough.

Re £200k is 'not a life changing amount of money'. The arguments over this on this thread are utterly bonkers! It is to some people, it's not to others!

AppleSetsSail · 11/04/2016 07:49

What a bad time the OP has gotten here.

Whether 200K is a lot of money is entirely irrelevant. If you were in the same position as the OP's BIL, i.e. you inherited half a house and wanted to live there/buy your sibling out, wouldn't you be busy covering every valuation angle to spare your brothers and sisters this very unpleasantness?

AppleSetsSail · 11/04/2016 07:56

Somewhere out there is a thread about a greedy SIL who cared fuck all about her FIL but wants to benefit from his death by destroying an idylic property with a busy estate. Btw., are you ready for all the hassle of a planning permission etc.? Who's gonna do it, your husband against his brother's will? Do you have money for all the fees?

How do you know how the OP felt about her FIL? Is there some other thread about this that I haven't seen?

This is the BIL's responsibility, not the OP's husband's. If they were to sell the house (default course of action), any whiff of development potential would be vetted out by prospective buyers and the price would be pushed up. Retaining an idyllic rural homestead that could be developed into a housing estate (unlikely, really) is a decision that must be made jointly with the opportunity costs borne equally.

CPtart · 11/04/2016 08:04

It doesn't matter if you or indeed BIL are millionaires, it's about fairness. And with it sounding like your DH has been shafted once already, YANBU to support him in his decision making, it will affect you and your DC too.
Never mind not rocking the boat. If BIL comes up trumps with extra money if the land is sold in the future, relationships will surely be further soured anyway.
I would be tempted to keep the house and land separate.
Good luck.

Collaborate · 11/04/2016 08:10

Not read the whole thread - it's too bloody long.

My suggestion is that you tell BiL the valuation is not agreed as it takes no account of development potential. Speak to a local planning consultant. If PP is realistic, apply for it.

Then you can get it revalued by a valuer jointly appointed.

IAmTheWhoreOfBabylon · 11/04/2016 08:13

And BIL may just be playing a clever game
Get a proper valuation yourselves OP

NeedsAsockamnesty · 11/04/2016 08:35

You could easily get a property like that for 400k or less in North wales. I just flogged one with 31 acres for 680k

MartinaJ · 11/04/2016 08:35

MidniteScribbler, there was a valuation done, as I understand from the OP's text.
And there's nothing ridiculous about pointing out that there's lots of paperwork, fees and legal issues connected with commercial properties.

Blondeshavemorefun · 11/04/2016 08:45

The more I re read this the more I'm Hmm

The bil wants all the land. Won't consider sharing. Who needs 8 acres

He can have 4 as can op dh

Bil then can rent the fields off his brother or op dh can rent his 4 acres to other people who have horses etc

Blondeshavemorefun · 11/04/2016 08:46

And get house revalued

By bil Friend and 2/3 other estate agents

DistanceCall · 11/04/2016 09:00

I don't think the OP is grabby. The brother won't share and wants to pay a fixed price. He claims that he won't be building on the property, but that's not necessarily true. It's only fair that the OP's husband find what the real potential value of the property is, and then he can decide what to do about it. But having as much information as possible is never a bad thing.

splendide · 11/04/2016 09:25

It seems to me that there is some massive over-complicating going on on this thread. You just need a proper valuation (and a proper valuation will take potential for development into account). BiL can buy you out at 50% and that's fine isn't it?

Sorry if I've missed it somewhere but is there a suspicion that the property has been deliberately undervalued to trick your DH?

Marynary · 11/04/2016 09:27

I don't think that you are being greedy at all. I would phone the council and find out if there would be any chance of planning permission. If not, the dilemma is solved. If you could get it, then perhaps you could get a valuation based on this. It may not reasonable to expect your BIL to pay you half but not unreasonable to pay more than £200k. There needs to be a compromise.
I would get a valuation properly by a surveyor (with both your DH and BIL present) rather than an a estate agent.

Bluebolt · 11/04/2016 09:30

One of the problems you have with these sorts of estates is the value is hard to judge and needs to be tested on the open market. Why many go to auction or sealed bids is estate agents have no real idea of the demand when plots are so individual.

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