AIBU - Mother hoarding money

[rubberdubber1970]

Ok here's the scene
My father spent half his life moving money from account to account to get the best interest rate, he invested heavily in stocks and shares and mostly made money.
Money became his god, he would never spend, food was always cheap cuts, never any heating on in the house, bath was only allowed to be filled half way, no holidays, wore the same clothes week in week out etc etc

My mum always a housewife used to complain about his meaness.
My father died 5 years ago leaving a tidy sum (about £350,000 in cash) and the house
My mum is 75 and not in the best of health, I have moved her to a place near me so I can help her out.

My brother has rheumatoid arthritis and struggles to work every day, but has to work to pay his mortgage.
I have chronic tendinitis in both arms (yes it hurts to type) but I run my own business so can't stop as I also have a mortgage to pay and don't get sick pay
I have spent about £5000 on acupuncture, therapists, physio to try and cure it

My brother has no children (only grown up step children) I have a daughter and will not be having anymore.

My mother in law (aged 93) is in a care home at £730 per week, she had £63,000 now most of it's gone for her care home fees.

My mother has turned into my father, she struggles to walk, but won't get a taxi, she won't turn the heating on, won't phone my brother because he has a mobile phone so costs more, even when I bought her some special offer wine she queried the price that I said she owed me.

All the while she sits complaining about the rate of interest she is getting from the bank - Forgot to mention she has two private pensions and a full old age pension - she has an income of £1000 per month and out goings of £600

For the last 5 years I have been telling her to spend her money, I have been brutal telling her that if she goes into a care home that they will take it. I've explained about inheritance tax and how her estate is above it. My father spending his life avoiding tax, she seems happy to give it to the system.

I have begged saying if you don't want to give it to me or my brother, or her only grandchild then at least give it to charity - but to do something good with it.

AIBU? I know it's her money, but she could really help out my brother and aid his suffering, but she won't listen, the money just sits in the bank earning a total pittance.

thecatsarecrazy - did he want you to keep the money for him, rather than own it yourself? My parents have put a considerably smaller sum in an account that's in mine and my DB's name - this is because my parents live overseas and my mum is beginning to show early signs of dementia, he wanted us to be able to just move her 'home' or sort out anything she needed quickly if he died or became seriously ill, without having to access her money. (It's enough to pay for DB and I to fly there, pay for hotels for a couple of weeks).

Basically, while it's in mine and my DB's names, it's not viewed within the family as our money, but still theirs, to be used for anything they need, so my Dad would be annoyed if DB or I spent it, even though legally we could.

As Cornishclio has just said, you may need to set up an Enduring Power of Attorney now while your mother is still able to manage her affairs and is mentally aware of the implications. Then as the need arises, at the appropriate time, you can manage her affairs and pay her living expenses out of her own money.
This position carries a lot of responsibility and is not to be taken lightly. The person or persons who have Power of Attorney may or may not be the Beneficiary of the Will. A Bank may take on this role but will charge accordingly.
A member of the family normally takes it on for nothing. I have done this for family members (now dead) and my husband also did it for his own parents.
I think you should seek advice from a professional or Citizens' Advice if you are concerned about the way things are heading.

These days a lot of 75 year olds are healthy and active and quite capable of making their own decisions. I do see why you wish she'd help out your brother as she is certainly in a position to do this. But if she won't she won't. Just because you don't want to give your family money doesn't mean you have Dementia.

Maybe she wants to do the responsible thing and pay her own care home fees rather than pissing her money up the wall and then relying on the state.

TBH looking at the state of some care homes I'd rather have some money behind me to give me a choice of where to end my days.

So YABU I think. It's her money.

The interest she's taking in her bank statements doesn't sound like dementia to me.

Last year I could have written your post. It's a generational difference - they earnt and saved, they didnt go mad buying stuff (something i have been guilty of on occasion) and they thought very carefully before spending it. Habits of a lifetime.

But money for a carehome is great - I know it doesnt seem that way especially if you are struggling right now - but it will give her some choice over her care and to be frank things are only going to get more difficult for her.

For me it meant that i never worried about how we would manage her last years - I have a child with SEN and autism and wasnt sure how I'd cope with more care responsibilies than I already have.

I know its hard but try and look at is as giving you both some freedom.

18 degrees? That's fine. My df keeps his on 13. Yes 13. They've got enough money to keep it on 25 permanently. On a really cold sat he might move it up to 15.
I must suggest to him I need to get power of attorney to force him to keep it on 21 degrees. Now there's a conversation which will not go well.

My brother has no children (only grown up step children)

Are grown up stepchildren really 'no children'?

I read your post as both parents have been frugal in the lives and your mother wants enough money to make sure she can go into a nice care home if she needs to.

You mention a few details about you and your brothers finances and health issues, which I assume was to suggest that you'd like your mother to give you both some money now?

I have begged saying if you don't want to give it to me or my brother, or her only grandchild then at least give it to charity

Which makes me wonder what kind of conversations you are actually having with your mother about money. Begged that she gives it to charity 'if you don't want to give it to us?

I don't blame your mother for doing her own thing, to be honest. My mother is only a few years younger, and I wouldn't dream of asking for a penny from her. Your mother is only 75, and apart from struggling to walk, is in good health I assume?

Yes I'm with Manhatt, I felt a bit uncomfortable reading your post as I read it as you sounding annoyed that with you and your brother having health issues but still having to work, you think she should be giving it to you. Now. Knowing she might need it for care home fees in the future? Why would you think that.

Don't push her to make decisions with one eye on her account (and what you feel you should get from that), it'll cloud your judgement and it won't come across well to her.

ManhattAN** Sorry about that, not sure where your other letters went!

She sounds really sensible. With only £400 net after her expenses she is wise to cut back. If more people were like she is the country would not be in such a state.

My late MIL was exactly the same. A very nice, gentle lady who was frugal to the point of disbelief when she could have had any luxury she wanted - she just didn't want them. Her greatest joy was to keep her money firmly in her purse/bank. She too went through her bank statements with a fine tooth comb.

She didn't like new things; much preferred her old raggy tea towels and towels which were threadbare. Anything new was bought for her by us: phones, microwave, clothes etc or she would have simply done without. She loved to get anything free. Once in Morrisons they were handing out vouchers for a free coffee and mince pie for pensioners. She'd always refused my request of going to the cafe for a drink, but she nearly snatched the man's hand off when it was for free.

Her food shopping consisted of going to every shop in town to get the items cheaper.
Towards the end, when she was unable to do her own shopping I took over and did a one stop supermarket shop for her, which brought on tutting and much checking of the till receipt and any change I gave her. She would ask her friends to call at certain shops for cheaper things rather than pay supermarket prices; I certainly wasn't racing around town to save her 10p here and there. She wouldn't call a taxi either, that was luxury too far, she much preferred us to ferry her about using our own time and petrol.

My DH (her only DC) got POA when she could no longer get into the bank and we were then able to make sure she was comfortable . We organised any care she needed in the home ('daylight robbery' she would comment) and in the end she didn't need a care home, though we absolutely expected that would be where all her savings ended up.

OP, my advice would be to stop stressing about her money, it's pointless when she can't see what will happen to her money, but at the same time don't sub her with things she won't buy herself like we did, or take on any long term free care for her when she could pay people, such as a cleaner, carers, taxis etc.

FIL is the same, but different. Assets estimated at over £1million. Refuses to inheritance plan. Pisses money away on utter rubbish. But it's his to piss away!

My dad was just the same, he used to go out in old tatty clothes and ask for a discount. He was worth half a million quid.

Are you worried about her health (the lack of heating, refusing to take taxis but struggling to walk)? Or is your concern more to do with how her money could help you? If the former, I can certainly understand. It can be so difficult to see people deny themselves comforts which they could easily afford, and doubly so if that denial negatively affects their physical condition. Is that something you could talk to her about?

But if you are more interested in receiving a share of the money yourself, then YABU. It is her money to save or spend as she chooses. My widowed mother gives money to my work-shy brother all the time, and I think she has done more than enough for him. It infuriates me that he is happy to take her money, but it is up to her how she uses her money.

My mum has just passed away age 90 and had similarly frugal tendencies - not wanting to pay taxis (even when she began falling), always buying on market or value items in supermarket. She got very upset when my cousin called her parsimonious.

I often nagged her to spend more on herself, taxis etc, got frustrated when she refused to have the neighbour's hairdressing daughter to cut her hair, even when housebound, 'as it may cost more than the fiver I usually pay'. I always put her attitude down to upbringing - she was one of 7, grew up very poor, so understandable to some point.

However, I found out accidentally about 18 mths ago that she had given my brother (56, never worked, entitled and lazy!) a large lump sum to help him and wife buy a house, plus was also giving them a generous monthly payment (that she could easily afford). ( I was resolutely kept in dark about all this).

Having thought about it recently, and talked to my cousin, who pointed out that none of mums 6 siblings were as frugal, I think her extreme frugality was partly because of my brother. He was v much golden child and I think she wanted to (a) ensure she could always give him his monthly allowance and (b) had money to leave when she died as he relied on her so much.

I feel sad that she wouldnt spend as much money on herself as she could, but have to respect it was her money, her choice. Fortunately she never skimped on heating, esp in the last 12 mths when she was housebound and frail. She did go into a home 8 wks before she died, despite insisting she never would, but had no choice and was ill enough at that point to go onto paid, end of life nursing care after a month.

I think you have to respect her wishes to not spend or give away her own money, however frustrating it may be!

Thanks for the many different points of view.
My mum's house isn't freezing she does put the heating on but only for a few hours a day
When I say my brothers grown stepchildren I mean he married his new wife when they were about 20 my mum is very independent and I totally get that it's her money to do what you want with but the point I'm trying to make is that having money and avoiding the Taxman was my father's career if my father would it be alive he would be hiding his money so he wouldn't have to pay for a care home as he would believe that the state should pay I did mention that my mother-in-law is in a care home which she paid for however when she runs out of money they will just take over from the council so she won't be moved so technically she could have spent the money and still be in the same position

I have already made provision for my daughter our house is owned tenants in common and if she was ill I would make sure that if she need money and I was in the position to give it to her I would more comfortable I would much rather see my daughter enjoy my money than look at a balance on a bank statement

"Get SS to do a capacity assessment."

WHAT? How ridiculous. They would refuse, for a start,because in no way is it indicative of her being unable to manage her own money that she chooses to do it it a way other people think is unwise - indeed the law says as much.

She sounds like she is making her own choices, and I think that saving up so she can afford care when she is elderly is wise. The state provides the minimum, and if you want a nurse to take time to look after you when you are old, then you need to pay for it. Carers paid for by the government are rushed off their feet and don't have time to spend with the elderly as their day is filled with back to back appointments.
You sound like you have your eye on her money. Its hers, not yours. I don't think she should squander her own future security to make your life easier. If you want more money and a more comfortable life, work for it as you are young enough to do it. Once her savings are gone, they are gone and she has no ability to replenish them. If I was her, there would be no way I would be pressured into giving you power of attorney. If you pressurise her to give her money over to you, you might find an unpleasant surprise in her will.

I would much rather see my daughter enjoy my money than look at a balance on a bank statement

Your mother is only 75. She could have another 20 years of life ahead of her.

I have begged saying if you don't want to give it to me or my brother, or her only grandchild then at least give it to charity

If your mum's got any sense (and it sounds as though she has), she'll start refusing to discuss her financial arrangements with you at all.

Respect her wishes. She's not doing anything wrong.

The thing with other people's month is that is so much easier to spend than your own.

Money, not month (stupid phone)

If you have spent £5000 on acupuncture then I think you might not be the best person to advise her on the most sensible way to handle money.

I actually can't believe you seem
So convinced that you've a right to a say in how your mother spends her own money. It seems massively greedy and self interested tbh. Maybe she likes heating at whatever level she puts it on.

Utterly horrified at the suggestions that the OP should have POA when she's openly saying that she and her brother 'need' the money.