To be mad at FIL for feeding my daughter meat?

[Fruitypebbles]

Hi, just joined the site to ask this.

We're vegans, and my daughter has been raised and weaned vegan. She's 5 and happily eats anything put in front of her. She's very healthy, not lacking in any vitamins or nutrients at all and is beautiful, happy and refuses to eat meat usually because she knows in child friendly terms why we are vegans.

Despite her health being perfectly fine (she rarely ever gets ill, let alone any deficiencies in iron and protein - there's plenty of protein in plants!) my FIL thinks we're evil. We've given him all the information, shown him exactly how much she gets in a normal day and he can see how healthy she is. He fed her a meat casserole, she obviously couldn't recognise the meat in the stew because we use meat subs occasionally. She was very, very sick after this as her body can't digest meat after never eating it. Why can't he just respect our choices to not eat animal products? AIBU?

About 10 years ago I got to know a vegan couple who's kids were often missing school due to illness, they were weak, anaemic and underweight. This couple gave them all sorts of dietary supplements, special smoothies with stuff in them at certain times of day etc. DD1 kept in touch with eldest girl, all she wants to eat nowadays is chicken nuggets and fish and chips.

Veganism just doesn't feel like a common sense way to raise children to me. They need a bit of everything - surely?

Also, to all those posters referencing bringing up dc as vegan or vegetarian as "forcing" our beliefs on them, please knock that on the head. I think eating meat is unethical and repulsive but I wouldn't say someone feeding their dc meat was forcing it upon them. We all choose our dcs diets when they are growing up.

I don't think it's wise to make a judgement about the suitability of a diet based on the example of one couple that you knew from 10 years ago. Especially as you won't know the whole background to their children's health situation.

As someone has previously mentioned, veganism gets unfortunately associated with people self-imposing restricted diets on themselves and their families without enough understanding of how to provide a healthy diet. Any kind of diet lacking in vital nutrients will be bad for you, whether it includes meat, is vegetarian or vegan. Veganism doesn't automatically mean a diet lacking in vital nutrients.

anyone who claims to be a vegan but eats eggs is talking bullshit.

I suspect that trying to discuss the morality around this issue in a rational way will be fruitless, then.

Back to the thread. I don't think I've ever heard any evidence that being vegan long term damages one's ability to digest a non vegan diet in the long term. A sudden change to a new diet can cause some upset, but as PPs have said, the physiology of your stomach doesn't change according to your diet over the course of a lifetime, so you should adjust to gradual changes just fine.

YANBU at all! Parents make choices for their children, good or bad, and nobody should alter these for you unless your child is seriously unhealthy, in danger, etc. My family are neither vegan nor vegetarian, yet we are not massive meat eaters. Not because of morals or anything, we're just not huge fans. And I bet OP's daughter is healthier than mine, because we do not substitute the meat with pulses, or whatever it is you need.
I can't quite believe some people are getting on their high horse because your daughter might not be able to go to McDonalds!!! I do eat there occasionally but we all know it's not the healthiest food. I think 'grabbing at straws' might be a good phrase to use for their arguments!

Any kind of diet lacking in vital nutrients will be bad for you, whether it includes meat, is vegetarian or vegan. Veganism doesn't automatically mean a diet lacking in vital nutrients.

Totally agree with this.

It is lacking in B12, unless you take supplements. So it is the only diet that does not give you all nutrients naturally, without additional supplementation.

Clearly, that is untrue. There are vegan sources of b12.

Yes, what I meant was that a properly thought out vegan diet would contain enough fortified foods such as yeast extract, or recognise the need to include a B12 supplement.

The vegan sources of B12, are food that has been supplemented.

Off topic but my pro-vegan arguing on this thread has inspired me to try it out. Just bought a weeks worth of vegan food for a family of 3, almost half the cost as usual and I'm very excited. Just had some almond milk on my cereal - can barely tell the difference.

I have ingredients for stir fry, veggie pizza, butternut & kale burritos, sweet potato chili, lentil 'spag bol', butternut, spinach & chickpea curry and mushroom fajitas for my dinners. So boring, how will I cope.

As a child I had a very restrictive vegan based diet - due to an intolerance of red meats. My problem isn't with children in vegan diet it is that I remember the feeling of being different to my friends. Not eating the same thing as them at parties and school, it's very hard to be the different one. It was also harder to get all the calories I needed as a child on a vegan diet.

But back to the OP the child should not of been feed meat if no meat is present diet, it can cause a shock reaction to the body making the child very ill.

I'm a meat eater, I mean I really love a steak...but I can totally understand why veganism makes sense.
It's nutritionally more healthy (assuming a balanced diet is taken) and it uses up a lot less resources. The planet would be in a much better state if more people were vegan.
I can't believe this thinking around malnourished vegans still exists, I thought we were all better educated around food now?

I hope your chat with your in-laws goes well OP. You have to be able to trust the people taking care of your child. If FIL has failed on this, what other decisions might he fail with?

It was a shitty thing to do but I would be upset on the basis it made my child ill rather than the actual meat.

OP, have you pointed out to FIL that he now has ruined his relationship with his granddaughter by breaking her trust in him? If anything, it's not respecting HER wishes that's the worst thing about it. If you talk to him about it, I would try and present it in those terms rather than anything to do with you.

The vegan sources of B12, are food that has been supplemented.

Cleaty is right, things like soya milk are supplemented with vitamins and calcium. Just one of the reasons they are better for you than dairy.

There is no reason for adult vegans to be malnourished. There are sometimes problems with under 5s who are vegans, because they have such small stomachs. But the OP said this does not apply to her.
I think many see vegans as being thin and malnourished, because sometimes people with eating disorders become vegans, as an expression of their eating disorder.

Except that if they were not supplemented, you'd end up malnourished. Lots of good reasons to go vegan but I don't think nature intended us to - so to claim those artificially supplemented foods are better is slightly misleading IMO.

No veganism is not natural. I suspect the healthiest diet, although not the most ethical, is largely vegan with a small amount of meat and fish every so often.

Also, even most carnivores eat some vegan meals. Unbuttered toast and baked beans, vegetable soup and bread, ratatouille, some tomato based vegetarian curries, an unbuttered roll and chips.
But sadly in restaurants dairy is nearly always used in their non meat dishes, especially cheese.

Cleaty is right, things like soya milk are supplemented with vitamins and calcium. Just one of the reasons they are better for you than dairy. smile

That's controversial. Depending on who you ask, it is either a wonderful superfood or a hormone disrupting poison.

I eat paleo which I think is pretty much the healthiest diet. Good in its most natural form, no processing or additives. A small amount of meat and fish with lots of fruit and veg.

Vegans hundreds of years ago would have been able to get B12 naturally. It's a bacteria, and our dirty water and produce gave us the necessary trace amounts.

We've cleaned up, our water is treated and our veg is cleaner (bacteria wise, not 'cides) and it's difficult to get it now. This applies to domesticated/farmed animals, too, most are B12 deficient, so they're artificially supplemented it through their feed, etc.

I imagine the only natural sources are seafood and wild game. Non-dairy milk with added B12 is no more supplemented than the steak on your plate is. Vegans just skip the step of killing an animal for it.

I don't think it's wise to make a judgement about the suitability of a diet based on the example of one couple that you knew from 10 years ago. What diff if it was 50 years ago?

Anyway - I'm not making my judgements on that evidence. I'm saying I don't see the common sense in giving kids pills and special supplements when they should just get a bit of everything.. They can make their own minds up later if they want to go vegan like their parents.

None at all! Just that it is one example from your past experience. Not enough to make any conclusion at all, especially as you won't have been privy to each child's full medical background.

"a bit of everything" surely depends on your own personal stance on the ethics/morals/religious beliefs about eating meat/animal products. Would you give the same advice to a Hindu family who were raising their children as vegetarians?

yes I would