To be mad at FIL for feeding my daughter meat?

[Fruitypebbles]

Hi, just joined the site to ask this.

We're vegans, and my daughter has been raised and weaned vegan. She's 5 and happily eats anything put in front of her. She's very healthy, not lacking in any vitamins or nutrients at all and is beautiful, happy and refuses to eat meat usually because she knows in child friendly terms why we are vegans.

Despite her health being perfectly fine (she rarely ever gets ill, let alone any deficiencies in iron and protein - there's plenty of protein in plants!) my FIL thinks we're evil. We've given him all the information, shown him exactly how much she gets in a normal day and he can see how healthy she is. He fed her a meat casserole, she obviously couldn't recognise the meat in the stew because we use meat subs occasionally. She was very, very sick after this as her body can't digest meat after never eating it. Why can't he just respect our choices to not eat animal products? AIBU?

Enough with the meat causes cancer please by the same default your child should never eat tinned veg or fruit especially tomatoes, soft drinks, some crisps, microwave popcorn, anything pickled or highly salted, anything containing hydrogenated oil, some types of flour refined and artificial sweetness (aspartame) any alcoholic drink and unwashed non organic fruit. It's all about quality, quantity and eating a balanced diet whether or not said diet contains meat or dairy.

And confuse her later by saying 'well, meat is murdering another being for our own nourishment and we don't need meat at all in our diet but because we wanted to give you a choice we bought and fed you animal flesh while teaching you why we don't eat it'? That's just confusing to her. Meat isn't a choice to us, it's eating another sentient being and we refuse to do it.

My partner did get a lot of flack from his dad, but he turned vegan when he went to a vegan fair in town and learned that actually, it's not a restrictive diet - and it isn't. I know my daughter eats better than somebody who feeds meat and veg every night. We feed her cuisine from all over the world, all kinds of different weird and wonderful fruit and vegetables when we can get them, aka when they're in season. The weird and wonderful fruit is expensive but it's worth it to expand her taste buds, we just have to cut down on some of our treats as parents :) and she's certainly not being denied junk food. Oreos are vegan, there's a thing called a vego bar which is completely delicious, we have vegan friendly Nutella, things like that. Our oven has never seen meat and I plan to keep it that way.

I agree with this from urkidding:
The father-in-law is trying to annoy you, and that is something you should take up with him. Feeding a child vegetables is hardly difficult. Tell him respect is a two-way street, and if he does not respect you, you will not respect him. The food is just a lot of noise, hiding disrespect.

Also this from musicposy:
OP, a family member did this to DD2. She decided to become veggie at the age of 8. ... She didn't forgive him. She's nearly 17 now, still veggie, and ... She still remembers it even though it was all those years ago.

While the discussion about veganism in children is interesting and I love all the new recipe ideas that these thread produce, they are red herrings.

Your FIL does not respect you. He is also, in showing his disrespect, risking his own relationship with his grandchild. If she cannot trust him, she will be unhappy when she is being cared for him. She not a plaything nor a pawn in a powergame. She is a person in her own right. I hope your DP, with your support, is able to talk it through with your FIL and MIL and come to some solution. (As others have said, one solution is different childcare, if you can afford it and can find a place.)

Missing word:
If she cannot trust him, she will be unhappy when she is being cared for by him

I don't think it's confusing at all.

And if she decides to become a meat eater, I suspect you won't let her cook food in your oven? Not respecting her choices really.

If she wants to be a meat eater she can do it outside of the house
Perfectly reasonable imo

Headofthehive55
The point is you are imposing your view on another being, who cannot choose just yet.

That's true. Just like every other parent whose children aren't brought up on a vegan diet.

They can always choose later, to become vegan if they want, but may not be able to digest meat, therefore choosing that option for them gives them less choice as an adult.

Where's the evidence to support the idea of a longterm inability to digest meat?

vince how is that reasonable? I don't eat pork but I wouldn't make my daughter leave the house to eat a bacon sandwich.

no, you're right, he doesn't. I'll be talking with him and MIL - my partner is really angry this has happened and he said 'I thought he got over this bull years ago' so neither of us expected this. We're gonna talk about it tomorrow with them when she's at school, so.

My grandfather was born during WWI and had a very impoverished background. He was malnourished. For my father, I'm pretty sure as a consequence of this, putting meat on the table is very important. It's old fashioned, but to him it's about not being poor and providing for his family. He thinks it isn't really a meal if something has died for it.

Now my dad is wrong, and I disagree with him, but I wonder if there are elements of this with your FIL OP ? This is partly about disrespect but it might partly be about ingrained and old fashioned ideas about providing properly for a family that stem back to a time before modern agriculture made meat cheap, mass-produced and readily available.

I've alternated between being pescetarian and vegetarian for over 30 years. If I've spent a long time meat free I have to be a bit careful about re-introducing fish. It's just common sense though - a small bit of white fish rather than chowing down on a large meaty tuna steak. Not sure about being vegan from birth but given how adaptable humans are, I suspect many vegans would be OK if they introduced meat slowly and carefully. (Although they might well not want to).

It is simply anecdotal that being brought up a vegan from birth can make it impossible to eat meat as an adult. A friend in this situation told me that, and some people on the net also say that. It is supposed to be because you never develop the stomach enzymes to process meat.

That should be "He thinks it isn't really a meal unless something has died for it"

Eating vegan is not restrictive when making your own food. It is very restrictive when eating out, unless you are very lucky about where you live, and travelling can be hard. I have basically eaten plain rice and 1 vegetable like broccoli when travelling in some countries. You have to be committed to it, because it is hard when those around you are eating delicious smelling meals. Totally different if you are vegetarian, that is usually easy, except in a few places.

It could well be that, but he's had a long time with my part ear to get used to the idea of being vegan and he's seen quite clearly that it hasn't killed her for 5 years, (the opposite in fact) and hasn't killed my partner. Bah.

Of course you're cross. Not only did your FIL feed your DD something you didn't want him to, but it also made her sick.

But in your FILs defense, I suspect he thought he was doing the right thing by his grandchild.

A vegan diet, if done properly is perfectly healthy. But I think it's sometimes not done healthily, which gives veganism a bad press. I've known some vegan children who have become underweight, and I've also known adults become vegan purely to lose weight, so I can understand why some people don't think it's a healthy diet for children. It's also more expensive than being a vegetarian (DS1 would happily be vegan, but I struggle with it, and so he is vegetarian, but doesn't consume anything which is obviously an animal product, such as milk or eggs, but will eat macaroni cheese.

I've heard David Haye is a vegan, and I said to DH, if he brought out a cookbook, I would buy it today!

It is supposed to be because you never develop the stomach enzymes to process meat

I don't buy that. We are an omnivorous species. We can process most food sources if necessary. I reckon lifelong vegans who tried meat (and they must be a tiny number) felt ill after the first go and decided they were unable to eat it. After all, why would you persevere to eat something that made you feel sick?
I was vegan for a few years but not strictly - I ate a cheese pasta dish that someone made me and it gave me horrible bloating and stomach ache. However when I reintroduced dairy I got used to it again very quickly. I dare say I could do the same with meat if I felt like it.

I am talking about life long vegans who vomited when they tried meat. My friend tried meat twice, and both times was very ill.
Would love to know the actual science behind this.

Meat, over time, is likely to become very expensive again and those who are happy and able to nourish themselves without meat will be at an advantage.
However, as others have said, FiL is being controlling and sounds like a bully. He is totally in the wrong.
If I were tricked into eating something I wouldn't normally eat eg battery chicken I would want to vomit if I found out soon enough. Whether that's reasonable is irrelevant - that's how I feel.

A vegan diet, if done properly is perfectly healthy. But I think it's sometimes not done healthily, which gives veganism a bad press.

That could be said about any diet though, it's just that with omnivores the concept itself doesn't get a bad press, just that version of it.

Our gut flora adapts to what is necessary. So yes, you will have reduced 'meat digesting enzymes' whilst on a vegan diet. But we're omnivores, the ability is there, and just like someone who never eats rich food would get ill eating a tonne of chocolate, or someone who never eats fruit and veg would be downing 3 litres of orange juice, it doesn't mean it's cut off for life. You introduce it slowly, go for leaner cuts and type of meat (chicken breast as opposed to a greasy big mac, or rich steak) and their gut flora will adapt and they can eat meat as well as anyone else.

Whether or not you give your child meat is a choice. Going for the healthiest and most ethical option is surely the right thing to do? If my parents were vegan and I was raised eating meat, I imagine that once I was old enough to understand the industry and I chose to be vegan, like my family, I'd be angry that I was forced to consume dead animals before I could understand it, when my parents were themselves against it and able to provide me with a vegan diet. If I want to eat meat, no problem.

That was supposed to be: If I was raised vegan and want to eat meat, no problem.

Enough with the meat causes cancer please by the same default your child should never eat tinned veg or fruit especially tomatoes, soft drinks, some crisps, microwave popcorn, anything pickled or highly salted, anything containing hydrogenated oil, some types of flour refined and artificial sweetness (aspartame) any alcoholic drink and unwashed non organic fruit

My children have never eaten these things because I either check every label or they don't eat the things e.g. popcorn or pickled things, they just don't smell nice. I thought everyone checked for these sort of things whether meat eaters or veggies etc

Also we don't eat anything that contains palm oil.

olivers no I don't know anybody that checks for those things. That's ridiculous. And neurotic.

I don't check for all those things. Some of them, not all them. I like gherkins too much.