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Original poster

Biological fathers - Archbishop Welby

162 replies

mrsmuddlepies · 09/04/2016 06:07

Very brave of Justin Welby to go public with this story. I have always admired his compassion and humanity. However, it makes me wonder how common it is for fathers to unknowingly not be the biological parent of their child? There was a recent thread which suggested a surprisingly high percentage. I wonder how many other high profile and ordinary families have this kind of secret?

OP posts:
MrsDeVere · 09/04/2016 18:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ohbehave1 · 09/04/2016 18:51

Tippytappy.

In this context it would be good. Maybe. Maybe not. But once it's in place it's there for good. And just imagine that, like with Hitler, the country got caught up in a wave of nationalism and the likes of Paul Golding got into power. You would have to god there was nothing in your dna that means he wants rid of you.

Original poster
mrsmuddlepies · 09/04/2016 18:55

That and you getting angry with me quoting from the Guardian.

OP posts:
LuluJakey1 · 09/04/2016 18:59

I think the dignity and humility with which Justin Welby has handled this makes a fascinating contrast with the super-injunction couple and David Cameron.
Justin Welby's position is much more sensitive in terms of public scrutiny of morality, values etc, yet he has behaved with humility, openness and emerged from it all probably with new-won respect from many.
Contrast the super-injunction couple who have mishandled their seedy behaviour being exposed trying to cover it up and prolonged the agony and speculation. Contrast also Cameron and his shenanighans this week over his family wealth and tax matters.
Welby has followed the three rules in this sort of situation: Tell it all at once, tell it yourself and don't try to hide stuff. The other two have made a bigger mess by not doing, have encouraged further scrutiny and hypothesising and have emerged the poorer because of their choices.

Scaredycat3000 · 09/04/2016 19:15

Have you read the coverage, Lulu? Tell it all at once He's been ignoring the obvious for decades. He's even deny that. This is a man that wants all our dc's imaginary soul though our schools, I strongly dislike him.

Original poster
mrsmuddlepies · 09/04/2016 19:15

I agree completely Lulu. I have always admired Justin Welby and his actions are always based on his concern for the well being of others.He is a good man.

OP posts:
LarrytheCucumber · 09/04/2016 19:21

Who are the super injunction couple?/Have I missed something?

Scaredycat3000 · 09/04/2016 19:23

His plan to save the church is to brainwash all our DC in our schools. How that concern for others, it's concern for his own job. Selfish nasty man.

LarrytheCucumber · 09/04/2016 19:34

Do you know him personally Scaredy? As far as I know his friends find him a man of compassion and integrity. His early life was hard. His mother and the man he thought was his father were alcoholics and he had a lot to deal with.

LittleMisslovesspiders · 09/04/2016 19:36

Scaredy Maybe stop being so goady and ridiculous.

SueTrinder · 09/04/2016 19:45

Is anyone seriously suggesting there should be compulsory DNA testing of babies? I find it hard to believe anyone would think compulsory testing of babies would be a good idea.

Sure, some fathers wouldn't have to raise children that aren't theirs. But it will be expensive, the baby can't give consent and the benefit to the child (and any siblings) is questionable, the implications to women who have been raped are potentially horrendous and the assumption that enough women are lying about the father of their child to make the negative aspects of this worthwhile is deeply misogynistic.

The Telegraph article says that his mother was an alcoholic at the time and the liaison with Montague Brown was 'fuelled by a large amount of alcohol on both sides'. Add to that Welby was, according to Jane, “a strong, possessive character” who began “bullying” her to run away with him. Who was the bad guy and who was the good guy in all of this? Seems to me none of us will ever know the whole truth about what happened all those years ago, we could all construct a story based on our own pet theories.

Scaredycat3000 · 09/04/2016 19:47

Do you know him personally Scaredy?
Of course I don't, he is a public figure who makes public speeches, has a website to make public statements. Using these mediums he has commented that a way to increase the ever diminishing christians is to indoctrinate children in schools. That to me is not an act of compassion, it is an act of selfishness. Being a kind bigot still makes you a bigot.

mudandmayhem01 · 09/04/2016 19:48

Mrsdevere, Cameron marginally better than Goebbels made made spit me tea out with laughter

Scaredycat3000 · 09/04/2016 19:50

Just because you don't agree with me Little doesn't make me goady, it means I have a different opinion.

HarlotBronte · 09/04/2016 19:52

At least one person appears to be sue, yes. It's surprising how many people don't get what a shit idea it is. I'm never sure how many advocates get that for it to have any teeth, you'd need a database of fathers too. Which would have to be coercive to have any hope of being remotely comprehensive, let's be honest.

raisedbyguineapigs · 09/04/2016 20:05

mrsmuddles How did the Guardian come up with the 1in 25 figure? Presumably by extrapolating the results of those who have dna tests to the general population. So out of all the fathers who have requested dna tests, some out of suspicion, some to get out of maintenance and some just to upset their partners, only 1 in 25 were correct. This tells me that it is much much less common in the general population.

WannaBe · 09/04/2016 20:13

So, it emerges a public figure was conceived during his mother's encounter with someone other than the man she married and people are calling for all babies to be DNA tested at birth? Sledge hammers and nuts anyone? Hmm.

Personally I don't see it as being anyone's business. It really isn't.

As for the goady fuckers objectors on this thread, you do know that Justin Wellby was the product not the cause of his heritage don't you? The idea that he should somehow be forced to go public with this kind of information and that he should somehow be ashamed or accountable says a lot more about you than it does about him.

LanaorAna1 · 09/04/2016 20:26

I admire the way he's tried to turn his experience - which comes as a nasty shock after a lifetime of nasty shocks from all three of his 'parents' - into a gentle reminder that it's a common experience.

I'm staggered everyone's whipped the Mail Sad face out for his 'mother'. She was pissed before and throughout pregnancy, then gave the infant Welby away to her ex-husband, the drunk she said was his father (he wasn't), to bring up so she could carry on partying.

OK, you can feel for her with the alcoholism, but really sympathy for her as a parent, let alone a mother, is pushing it a bit. She gave her son away to a man who she knew was a hopeless alcoholic. I think she kept the other child she had later, though.

WannaBe · 09/04/2016 20:32

"I'm staggered everyone's whipped the Mail Sad face out for his 'mother'. She was pissed before and throughout pregnancy, then gave the infant Welby away to her ex-husband, the drunk she said was his father (he wasn't), to bring up so she could carry on partying." but it was 60 years ago. Plus if he now has a relationship with her, is it really for any of us to judge? Surely the only valid opinion on her is his?

Original poster
mrsmuddlepies · 09/04/2016 20:35

Sorry Raised, I thought I Had posted. I included the link. The Guardian article is based on Liverpool John Moores research findings.

OP posts:
JoffreyBaratheon · 09/04/2016 20:38

I'm a genealogist and often find it interesting that people identify with their male lines - all those surnames carried by generations, and often most especially, the latest, the surname they carry; they often seem to feel that is somehow, magically, their most important line to research.

I look at it another way and assume any male line on any tree could be totally erroneous. Few, if any, females lines can be.

Original poster
mrsmuddlepies · 09/04/2016 20:40

Joffrey, Isn't this the reason why traditionally being Jewish is handed down through the female line?

OP posts:
LanaorAna1 · 09/04/2016 20:55

Wannabe I agree with you, sort of. I think everyone's entitled to an opinion (would be weird if some of us weren't) but it isn't up to us to judge.

Not least because, on the subject of genes, I was brought up with some of his mother's family and they are known to have pretty bad luck in the mad-and-drunk stakes. A lot of alcoholism is hereditary, and she may just have been another victim.

MediumOrchid · 09/04/2016 21:29

LanaorAna1 - you're making quite a few assumptions there on very little information.

FYI Lady Williams only has one child, Justin.

I have a huge amount of respect for her, she overcame her alcoholism and hasn't had a drink since 1968.

Eustace2016 · 09/04/2016 21:30

Joff, and interestingly this week scientists have found that those of us with Neanderthal DNA (abotu 3% of our genes unless we are African) have only female Neanderthal DNA, no male. So there might even be a view that female genes shoudl be the ones we trace.

I certainly think the church peddles myth as fact but Welby and Cameron and the injunction couple are all pretty good people.

One issue around all 3 cases is the fascinating one of where the law draws the line on privacy rights and I am lucky enough to practise law in that area. What the public are interested in (sex, who slept with whom and what people earn and their savings) is not the same as what it is in the public interest to publish.

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