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Original poster

Biological fathers - Archbishop Welby

162 replies

mrsmuddlepies · 09/04/2016 06:07

Very brave of Justin Welby to go public with this story. I have always admired his compassion and humanity. However, it makes me wonder how common it is for fathers to unknowingly not be the biological parent of their child? There was a recent thread which suggested a surprisingly high percentage. I wonder how many other high profile and ordinary families have this kind of secret?

OP posts:
Fratelli · 09/04/2016 09:19

Oh the dna thing again. I've said it before and I'll say it again. My ds was conceived by rape. My dp is raising him with me and had been with me throughout the birth and pregnancy too. Should we have been forced to have dna tests so that a criminal knows he is biologically a "father"?

BillSykesDog · 09/04/2016 09:25

charleston, the problem is that even if a system of testing is introduced with controls on how long samples can be kept, what results can be harvested from them and how they can be used it really is the thin end of the wedge. It would be the start of a creep and potentially a 'softening up' process for something much more sinister. Plus we can't predict the future, and although we may feel comfortable with the government now having the power to harvest DNA in a trustworthy manner and treat it ethically, ten years down the line who knows what sort of government would have that power?

charlestonchaplin · 09/04/2016 09:27

Having now read some of the details I can see Gavin Welby died a long time ago.

grannytomine · 09/04/2016 09:27

The journalist who wrote the story was on BBC this morning. He said Welby suggested the DNA test, he had gone to talk to him about the rumour. He said there was no threat about publishing it and of course if Welby hadn't had the DNA it would have just been a very old rumour.

I feel sorry for his mother but the idea that she was sleeping with this other man the night before she eloped seemed a bit odd. Makes you wonder why she was eloping.

grannytomine · 09/04/2016 09:29

I am pretty sure the journalist said he was retired but was interested in the story so decided to ask Welby, who he knows, if it was true. Welby said he had heard the rumour and was interested in the truth.

Quimby · 09/04/2016 09:46

I don't think DNA matters in the slightest, when everyone is on the same page from the off.

When it's a unilateral decision to keep that information a secret though, then it fucks up lives.

I'm adopted and will most likely only have a kid through non biological means. None of that phases me or causes issues.
However had I found out at 18 that I was adopted having believed my parents to be my biological peters or should I find out five years down the line that my child was secretly somebody else's having believed it to be biologically mins then I can't even begin to imagine the damage that would do to the relationships already formed.

Also the idea of automatic DNA testing or a DNA database is beyond frightening

nutbrownhare15 · 09/04/2016 10:24

I feel sorry for his mother because it's splashed all over the newspapers. The details of what happened are not any of my business and I don't want to know, or judge. I think it's a private matter for their family.

lljkk · 09/04/2016 10:35

He didn't choose to go public, the media decided to make it a story.
I couldn't care less. Sad he can't come to terms with this in privacy.

Foxyloxy1plus1 · 09/04/2016 10:45

I don't see why it's anyone's business, other than the families concerned.

raisedbyguineapigs · 09/04/2016 10:54

From what I have read, his mother is an alcoholic. She was shocked apparently, so must have, inexplicably not had any suspicions. Maybe she has hazy recollections or was not really in a good place at the time.

TippyTappyLappyToppy · 09/04/2016 10:58

If they have a fatter who loves them is dna that important?

It's pretty important if someone has been tricked into believing they are the father of a child who is not theirs at all, yes.

mudandmayhem01 · 09/04/2016 11:00

His mother is a recovered alcoholic and has been sober for 40 years. Poor woman having her actions whilst she was whilst she was in the grip of an addiction ( which she has successfully overcome) poured over. Interestingly the actions of his genetic father are not mentioned.

TippyTappyLappyToppy · 09/04/2016 11:06

His poor mother

How bizarre that your first thought is to have pity for his mother.

I would be totally in favour of standard DNA testing at birth. I really don't understand what the objection to it is at all.

LittleMisslovesspiders · 09/04/2016 11:10

It's pretty important if someone has been tricked into believing they are the father of a child who is not theirs at all, yes.

I tend to agree, although his mother said she had no idea. Not sure how true that is however.

Lindt70Percent · 09/04/2016 11:10

I agree with araiba:
i dont think real life should be modelled on jeremy kyle/ jerry springer show

TippyTappyLappyToppy · 09/04/2016 11:31

Do you really believe her that she had no idea? I mean presumably she knew she was having sex with more than one person at roughly the same time so while she may not have known definitively, she must have known it was a distinct possibility. Especially as he then grew up apparently looking like the spit of her lover so I don't buy it that she had no idea - don't buy it AT ALL.

mudandmayhem01 · 09/04/2016 11:39

Doesn't really matter if you believe her or not. Its her private life.

Scaredycat3000 · 09/04/2016 11:40

Oh the irony that one of the biggest leaders in theology is the result of everything the organization preaches against? His childhood would have been even worse if it had been known about his origins at the time due to the churches judging. Thankfully as a society we are losing religion and moving forward, despite Welby and his cronies.
And MNHQ religious privilege is alive and well and being fully supported by you.

BoomBoomsCousin · 09/04/2016 11:57

If we're going to have standard DNA testing at birth then we need a DNA database of all men so the child's genetic father can be found. I don't think it will help our society at all to bring in a system that assumes suspicion and whose only impact can be to remove a source of stability from a child's life. It's way too negative.

noblegiraffe · 09/04/2016 12:19

From what I've read it sounds like the Archbishop had a pretty crap upbringing with his father who was neglectful.

Finding out that someone so useless isn't actually in your genetic heritage must have an impact on how you view yourself. I know many other people worry about growing up like their useless parent because it's in their blood.

It won't be out of idle curiosity that Welby took the DNA test and I'm sure he has been deeply affected by the results. However he is being very dignified and generous in his public response and imo it makes him look better, not worse as a church leader.

raisedbyguineapigs · 09/04/2016 12:23

Standard DNA testing would be a massive waste of money, and assumes most women are adulterous, duplicitous and too stupid to use contraception when they are. I bet it's a minute proportion of the general population that this happens to. People who have DNA tests done are those who have a suspicion in the first place. You can't extrapolate that into the general population.

Scaredycat3000 · 09/04/2016 12:29

DNA testing would have many unexpected side effects. Many of our most vulnerable would forcibly have their pregnancies hidden to protect their abusers. Women like Welby's mother who's life was so chaotic she simply isn't sure exactly what happened may have avoided official help so as not to face up to her life. There will be many more motives to avoid DNA testing that I would never even think of. Though at in the 60's the biggest problem would have been the judging and shame from the church community.

SirBernardWoolley · 09/04/2016 12:59

I think the Telegraph is an utter disgrace. I doubt very much that it was Welby's choice to have his mother's life exposed in the press like this for all to judge.

This is a private matter - I don't give a shit who his father is - it is a complete non-story. It is for him and his family to deal with in whatever way they choose.

Scaredycat3000 · 09/04/2016 13:19

Welby wanted to know if old family gossip was correct, the Telegraph helped him find out it was true. Why is that disgraceful? As Welby said himself he could have left old family gossip as just that, but he asked for and received help from a newspaper and they helped him.

RedToothBrush · 09/04/2016 13:45

I think that Welby has been very dignified and is to be commended.

I would hope that he discussed this with his mother before going ahead and got her consent given that it was in the public domain. Welby gave his consent to do this publically so everyone saying its the Telegraph who is a disgrace is a bit naïve. The fact he was proved to be mistaken in his belief was always a possible outcome if trying to put the gossip to bed. He gave his DNA on this basis and should have given due thought and consideration to the possibility, however small in his mind, that it would come back with the 'wrong' result. The paper would have published the results if they were the 'right' ones and that was the basis of the newspaper's involvement - to investigate the possibility either way.

I think it highlights the need for everyone to be given counselling before doing a DNA test for parentage because of the potential fall out though.