AIBU to ask if Lord Owen is right about TTIP?

[SpringingIntoAction]

Is former Labour Minister and SDP politician, Lord David Owen right to think that TTIP will be detrimental to the NHS?

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/06/brexit-is-necessary-to-protect-nhs-from-ttip-says-david-owen

"Playing to the lowest common denominator is being spectacularly successful for them at the moment..."

That's not very encouraging from an evolutionary point of view...

Nobody said it was the best course of action but I seem to have missed the part that you said it wasn't the best decision made by this government

That's what I meant by 'oops', if the decision was made as you describe.

One of the reasons I'll vote to stay, beyond the economic, is that I think the EU can (sometimes) act as a brake on knee-jerk short-term decision making (by all parties) that put politics before what will actually work for people.

I see the leaflet says in black and white that Remaining is 'the best option'. Fairly partisan I would say.

Surely if there are only two options it should say 'better option'. Unless of course there are more than two.

What exactly is the 'lowest common denominator' anyway. Really I would like to know.
The fact that the leave camp has support all the way from the SWP/RMT to UKIP along with LGBT and everything in between makes the lowest common denominator impossible to determine.

Why does the EU discriminate against LGBT people? Only 12 of the 28 nations have equal marriage. Seven actually have constitutional bans.

Shocking in this day and age.

And something that we only recently resolved. Clutching at straws now aren't you.

Quite frankly the RMT's stance is against privatisation which is fine because it is in the RMT's interests not to privatise.

There is a LGBT campaign to exit but it certainly doesn't represent all their views.

The government's source is backing one side yes, and certainly wouldn't be used as the only evidence for backing a remain campaign, but daisy keeps linking to Express, Mail, Telegraph and lots of Brexit sites as if to validate the arguments. Which it doesn't.

"I see the leaflet says in black and white that Remaining is 'the best option'. Fairly partisan I would say."

Well, yes. The government has taken an official side. It is not neutral.

"Surely if there are only two options it should say 'better option'. Unless of course there are more than two."

Are you complaining about the grammar or the bias? You are correct about the grammar. (And a stopped clock shows the right time twice a day.)

"Why does the EU discriminate against LGBT people? Only 12 of the 28 nations have equal marriage. Seven actually have constitutional bans."

The EU doesn't discriminate against LGBT people. 16 of the individual member states have so far chosen not to adopt equal marriage. Marriage equality is not within the competence of the EU because it has no impact on the functioning of the single market. It is for member states to decide.

Honestly, there's no pleasing some people, is there? Either the EU is overstepping its reach by legislating in areas which you think should be up to individual countries to decide, or it's discriminating against LGBT people by failing to legislate in areas which are outside its jurisdiction. They're damned if they do, damned if they don't.

"What exactly is the 'lowest common denominator' anyway."

Judging by the interactions I've had with the Brexit camp recently, I would say the lowest common denominator means "thick people".

(I know you're going to start clutching your pearls and accuse me of being arrogant and elitist, but you've been doing that all along anyway. If you're determined to keep insisting the shoe fits me perfectly, I might as well give in and wear it.)

Why does the EU discriminate against LGBT people? Only 12 of the 28 nations have equal marriage. Seven actually have constitutional bans.

Aren't you confusing 'the EU' in the sense it's been used throughout this thread (the institutions of the EU and particularly the Commission but including the Council and Parliament) with 'individual EU member states? Or are you suggesting that lack of equal marriage in other countries is the result of adopted EU policy?

Do you think that the EU should be setting more social policy across the board for member states? Wouldn't that undermine sovereignty to an unacceptable level, the true fabric of a country being reflected in its social policies, not its economic ones?

Your tying yourself in knots here helpful, quite funny.

You still ashamed to admit you are a fella Lurked?

Quite funny.

Being insulted by the Troika is like being ravaged by dead sheep.

I've had harder Donald Trumps.

Because dead sheep are smarter than you?

Yet you still fail to post a convincing argument for brexit or to any of the counter points put to you. But think you have done by throwing ad homs around... quite funny.

I know we all sometimes make typos in our haste, but Buttered and Lurcio both suffer from Greengrocer's Apostrophe.

Daisy, stop trying to make yourself the spokesperson for all mum's

Cut, if they're on an idevice it's flipping autocorrect. It refuses to accept the idea that mums might be a plural, on my phone, anyway.

But now you've pointed it out, the use of such apostrophes has absolutely changed my mind about which way to vote in the referendum. How could I have been so blinded by actual policy issues?

Actually my iPhone suffers from the dreaded Greengrocer's Apostrophe. I suffer from failure to proofread before hitting post. Oh for an edit button...

But if that's all you've got then maybe we are getting somewhere.

Wow, CutThe, that's convinced me to vote Leave

Then my work is done. Going now to listen to the Isley Brothers.

This is quite an elaborate addition to the 'we must stay in the EU because Cameron will give us worse'. This elaboration blames the U.S., not the EU.

Some organisations such as 387 degrees have been campaigning on this for years, pre the EU referendum being given a date and pre last election.

Nahh no amount of education could improve your feeble intellect.

The EU has secured for the UK many equality rights including in the area of homosexuality. It has also just this week approved a new stronger privacy rights law which the US is fairly up in arms about. It is a useful counter balance against American power in the world amongst other things. I want us to stay not because of discrimination and worker protection but for many other reasons but even I concede that plenty of workers' rights are there only because the EU forced them on the EU which is why most traditional labour supporters want us to remain in.

The leavers tend to be older white men even if university educated, who hate immigration and of course the core anti black UKIP lot, the skin heads and all the rest. However I don't under estimate them . I think we will vote to stay in but by a fairly small margin.

We certainly need on whatever side we are to get people out there to vote. Parents can help. Over the last 30 years I've been a parent I have always made sure the chidlren come down to the polling station, know about elections of all types and we talk about it all at home. When the older children went off to university I made sure they got a postal vote and reminded them when the election was and my 17 year olds are disappointed this year they miss all this voting by a few months but they will have their chance at the next general election when I hope we get the Tories in for another 5 years.

I wonder what HelpfulChap said to get deleted. Must have been pretty offensive.