Re clueless friend and toddler

[Fleab1te]

Our friend, his girlfriend and their kid(toddler) came to visit recently. I've known him years and he's a lovely bloke but generally clueless about how he/his behaviour affects others. (Others feel this way about him too. We laugh fondly about his ridiculousness ). We've hosted him numerous times and always spoil him with nice meals etc. When we've visited him we're lucky if we get fed and had to go out and buy ourselves sandwiches once. (Just a bit of back story )

I spent ages cleaning, sorting bedding and 10 min after their arrival the place was a shit hole. Our house is the opposite of a toddler haven so I was prepared for some upheaval, but the more I think about it the more pissed off I get about his/their total lack of respect for us and our home. Here is a list of points of rage inducing behaviour:

They left half eaten food (provided by us) about the place(half a satsuma. ..then another one...)

Allowed him to wander around with sick all over his bib then left it on the side for me to wash.

Stomped into the house with muddy boots after a walk through the woods

Changed his nappy on the sofa /on landing (no changing mat) probably dropping traces of shit on to carpet.

Allowed him to bash furniture with his toys.

Allowed him to bang cupboards /drawers at 7 am.

He NEVER brings his own towel as apparently we are a hotel.

And to top it off after they had gone we discovered the most disgusting mess of shit smear in the toilet. He always does this but it's never been this bad and to be honest it tipped me over the edge. I know I might be being precious over the nappy thing, but it drives me nuts how some people seem to think that snot/shit/sick is somehow less disgusting when it's a baby's. We're not parents and don't ever intend to be, so just wondering if our non parentness is causing unreasonable levels of impatience and lack of understanding. Many thanks if you managed to get this far.

To be honest I think people may have been a bit hostile because the towel thing made the OP sound rather like she had had a sitting on a stick incident. Sorry OP. I was probably a bit like that pre kids.

Toddlers are noisy and messy. But, having had a number of toddlers to visit/stay over, there is a lot that parents can and, in my view, should do when visiting friends to mitigate this.

Example a) my friends with a toddler who let her run all over our house, pulling things off shelves and breaking things. Neither of them even picked up after her, they just let her do what she wanted. We only ever have them over in the evening now because they get babysitters then.

Example b) my friend with actually an even more energetic toddler who plans out visits so that, for example, she takes her toddler to a playground first to tire him out a bit, she generally suggests shorter visits, and she always cleans up after him. She is always welcome to visit.

Example c) my cousin and her DH who stayed with their toddler and their six year old for a few days. They made a certain amount of mess (expected) but they made efforts to keep it contained to their room and they tidied up when the kids had gone to bed so we didn’t have toys everywhere during the evening. They took the kids to the playground over the road every morning first thing so that they didn’t wake us up and so that the kids burned off a bit of energy. I actually don’t even know where they changed the toddlers nappy – that’s how discreet they were about this. It was tiring having them to stay and we did have to clear up a bit of mess but they are very welcome to come and stay again.

Your friends, I would not have back. There is no excuse for not cleaning up the sick properly, not changing the toddler in the bathroom and leaving a shit smear. Apart from anything else, it’s about parents actually making some effort rather than being, as some people have been in this thread “oh, well, that’s just toddlers” – of course, accidents happen and if a toddler accidentally breaks something in my house or the parents clean up mostly but miss one thing, it’s not the end of the world but if the parents are making no effort to control them or clean up after them, it’s not acceptable.

Gross. Don't blame you OP. Yanbu.

For future ref: I direct visitors to put the infant or child in the bathtub and change diapers there. And provide a small outdoor bin where parents take soiled items immediately. Non negotiable.

I do provide towels.

Best not to have this person to stay again.

I would never ever ever expect a guest to bring their own towel!

There can be a major gulf between couples with and without children.

I had a lot of friends who chose not to have children - they were actually the majority of my close friends pre-kids. I spent the first years being absolutely uptight to beyond funny about making sure if we were anywhere with them (in their homes or in cafes) the children didn't impose/there was no mess/no noise... it was hugely stressful and I was on constant high alert and toddlers tend to respond to this by upping the noise/mess/general chaos. It's also not very fair or kind to young children to be cross with them about being at where they are at developmentally just because you have adult friends who don't understand where they're at developmentally.

To be frank, after only one or two of these trips to people's homes, I just stopped visiting anyone without kids - and after a while, I stopped asking people without kids to ours. I would only meet people in the evening. Only after a while, I started to notice with many that not only were my kids not physically welcome, I wasn't really welcome to talk about the side of my life that involved kids.. in fact three of my friends never so much as would ask after them. I was NEVER a baby bore and certainly would never have talked to them in any detail about any of it anyway but it became notable that when it came to the kids, there was a virtual embargo on even mentioning them - as they were so boring, when of course my friends' colleagues/conquests/quests for promotion were ipso facto scintillating and exciting. It became the case that these friendships which had been so important to me just faded out.

I know not all people without children are like this, but you know, now my kids are getting older I can see that there's now lots of space in my life for these friendships but most of them are long gone at this stage because there wasn't even a tiny bit of compromise and consideration in the earlier stages. I feel quite sad about that.

So I guess you have to ask yourself if this person matters, is it worth a bit of personal discomfort to make the relationship work over a lifetime or not?

"For future ref: I direct visitors to put the infant or child in the bathtub and change diapers there. And provide a small outdoor bin where parents take soiled items immediately. Non negotiable"

Seriously. You make people try and get a toddler to lie down in a bath? And buy a special outside bin but won't spend a tenner on a change mat if changing bothers you so much, and you have so many nappies that you need a special bin.

This makes the whole towel thing sound rational.

LeaLander

You ask your guests to change nappies in the bath? Seriously? Have you any idea how back breakingly awful that would be?

Don't think I'd like to be your friend/guest.

I saved my friends the bother of all that when they started having children - I left them to it.

I'm not great with kids and would have been very pissed off at any one of the incidents in the OP. So I ditched all my friends who did the 'baby' thing. That way they didn't have to worry about trying to make their kids behave in my house and I didn't get stressed!

I wouldn't dream of boring people to death about my work life but by the same token I'm not interested in their children so it seemed fairer somehow to acknowledge that we were going in different directions and call it a day.

She doesn't ask Aspergallus, she directs then. It's non negotiable.

Chillin with the LeaLander...

I think that all sounds perfectly normal when you have a toddler and I don't have children. Who takes their own towels when they stay with friends? Surely as host you provide towels for them.

I think you need to stop and think about whether you're suited to hosting or not. Families make mess. Fact. It can be cleaned up. God help you when they get to the potty training stage and start whipping the child's pants down and plonking him on the potty to poo in front of you

Changing toddler nappies in the bath would be a nightmare. Back breaking for me. Border line dangerous for DS who would thrash about in rage and bang his head.

Sometimes, non parents really don't get it. Which is fine, because why would you.

I would steer clear of your house for a while though (until potty training is well and truly done) because that's stress I don't need.

My friend washes her toddlers shitty arse in the bath and says "oh, we don't use baby wipes but I will bleach your bath for you"

No one has complained. Perhaps I know limber people with compliant children, who knows? It was a parent who clued me in on the bath option.

I don't think I'd actually be capable of changing DD's nappy in the bath. And I can guarantee she would throw an epic wobbler and hit her head on the taps or something.

I have a changing mat in the changing bag and use that. Nobody's every suggested I change her in the bath. You do know they don't permanently drip poo don't you? even if it feels like that sometimes

The only way I could change a nappy in the bath is if I sat in there as well, how bendy are your friends?
When they were babies I sat on the loo lid and changed them on my knee or with them standing up as toddlers.

How do you all clean your tubs if bending into it is a hardship?

Except for the towels, which is weird, the rest of it would annoy me as well.

I thoroughly agree that some people without children don't understand how tough toddlers are, and equally, there seems to be a solid percentage of parents who believe that everyone needs to share toddler parenting hell by accommodating everything their precious child does.

Kids or not - treading mud inside, dirty toilets and leaving bits of half eaten food around the house is poor manners.

'How do you all clean your tubs if bending into it is a hardship?'

I was wondering this too LeaLander

It's not the bending per se that's the issue, it's bending while trying to change a toddler.

A cleaning cloth is very different in weight, dimension and co-operation to a child!

Livia, I think I've seen you post before on this topic. I was happily childfree with no intention of reproducing till the age of 40, and also have large numbers of friends who aren't parents, but you sound as if you actually cull friends as soon as they give birth (or is it as soon as they announce a first pregnancy?), as if they have suddenly joined some kind of ParentBorg hive mind...? Why so militant with the friend cull? A lot of people do have children. Doesn't it get exhausting having to cut ties with previous friends and find a new lot, only to ditch them in turn if they reproduce? Or did you not like them much in the first place?

OP, I still think you sound like someone who is houseproud, rather set in her ways and fundamentally unsuited to hosting, if the behaviour (and not all of it was down to the toddler's noise and bodily fluids) of a friend you describe as someone you have known and been fond of for years leads you to go on a public forum with 'a list of rage-inducing behaviour' (your phrase). And did you honestly think that a friend you also characterise as slobbish and careless and a poor host was magically going to turn into the kind of parent who considered it a priority to swoop down on his toddler if he/she looked as if an advance on your coffee table with a toy was likely?

I've cleaned a lot of baths, sinks and so on.... as of yet no cleaning cloth has shouted "NAH MAMA! NAH!" and tried to run away, then howled and kicked and attempted to bang its own head with extreme melodrama when I've tried to pin it down.

I always take a towel if I stay somewhere. We only have two towels each anyway, no where to store 10 towels for guests!

Well if they are flailing about like that, I think the concern about spreading feces and urine around onto sofas, beds, rugs and the like is quite valid. So the bath still would be preferable.

Another option people use here is to do the change in the rear seat or trunk (boot) of their cars while visiting others' homes. And leave soiled items out there for transport home.

The last three on your list wouldn't bother me. Toddlers are toddlers.

Leaving half-eaten food and dirty bibs lying around for me to pick up, mud on the floor for me to clean up, and changing the nappy without a mat would REALLY piss me off. Fortunately, we've never hosted anyone who thinks that's ok, with toddlers or without, and we don't do that when taking our DC to stay elsewhere.

I didn't like them some of them much in the first place.

I am not good with children, particularly toddlers - what parents find ordinary toddler behaviour, I would find irritating. So surely if the OP dropped her friend it would save having incidents like she described. I imagine nobody was happy during that stay!