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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Just signed a DNR for my nan.

121 replies

EveOnline2016 · 01/04/2016 23:09

Posted for traffic.

I feel like I have sentenced my nan to a death sentence, I am nan next to kin and have power of attorney after all the years caring for her.

My mind is in bits, I really don't know where to turn.

My nan is not in a great place and is in hospital and I am at a loss of what to do.

I can't loose my nan.

She has dementia and cancer, there is nothing more that can be done, palletive nurse and many other people have done a wonderful job at making nan comfortable.

Have I made the right move, fucking family has made me feel like shit.

Where was there when I have been washing and changing my nan and making sure her meds and meals have been done.

OP posts:
Wolpertinger · 01/04/2016 23:35

You have done the right thing. From what you describe, resuscitation had no chance of success anyway - almost everyone in the UK dies with a DNR, likely your family do not realise this.

Because you had Power of Attorney you have been in the unusual position of having to act as if you were your nan, but it is still the doctors' decision whether to do CPR, not yours - if that helps. If they felt it would be of no benefit at all to your nan they would have told you they weren't going to offer CPR and discussed this with you or at least they should have done it this way, not simply left you feeling you were making the decision whether she lived or died.

Your nan clearly loves you a lot to give you the Power of Attorney and not any other family member, she knew you would do the right thing for her more than anyone else.

Fatmomma99 · 01/04/2016 23:35

Having had dogs all my life, and then watching my dad get sick and die, I feel we don't get end-of-life right for humans as we do for our pets.

This is not the fault of the individual - as a society I think we have got end of life very, very wrong.

You love shines out, and you are doing the best you can with the messy system we have. We all deserve to die with dignity and without pain. We do this for our pets, but not the people we love the most. We haven't got it right!

But it sounds to me like you've done the absolute best and right you can. Hold your head high, and your nan's hand! Flowers

Helenluvsrob · 01/04/2016 23:38

Pmed you. Come over to the elderly parents board. We are all going through this.

starry0ne · 01/04/2016 23:40

Flowers Brew

You have made a kind decision...

Fedupd0tcom · 01/04/2016 23:43

Make sure you are looking after yourself as well. This is so very tough on you. X

VagueIdeas · 01/04/2016 23:45

I watched my dear grandad die a horrific death from cancer and my nan (his wife) is now in a home with dementia.

You did the right thing.

I'm sure it's what she'd want, if you could ask her. It's what I would want under the same circumstances Flowers

Northernlurker · 01/04/2016 23:46

OP you have made the right choice without question. Anybody who thinks otherwise quite simply does not know what they are talking about.
I work in a hospital and recently I saw a resus attempt from a distance as it were. Everybody involved was caring and competent and tried their utmost but it was no way to die. It's not like it is on tv.
I hope you and your nan can have some peaceful time together as she approaches the end of her life.

timelytess · 01/04/2016 23:47

Yes, you've done the right thing. No-one wants to be brought round to suffer again and again, do they? You have shown loving-kindness to your nan by wanting to prevent that. I believe, so I'll say 'God be with you all', and if you don't believe I hope you won't be offended. Vibes for your nan's peaceful passing in due course.

Freddiethefirefly · 01/04/2016 23:48

I am so sorry you are going through this.
To repeat what many of the OPs have said, as a doctor, we make it clear that the DNAR is a medical decision not something we would want a loved one to be responsible for, however something we openly discuss with next if kin.

You have done the right thing as resuscitation would not be in your Nans best interests and would not be dignified. If other family members are giving you a hard time ask the nurse in charge to explain the DNAR to them or a doctor if on the ward. Often there won't be a doctor available at this time as there many only be 1-2 doctors covering all hospital wards at night.

💐💐

cookiefiend · 01/04/2016 23:50

I too have my grandparents powers of attorney because they trusted me to respect their wishes and not selfishly do what I wanted (keep them forever). Your grandmother loved you and put her trust in you- she knew you would do the right thing. You have a great bond for her to have done that. Ignore your aunt. I am so sorry.

Octonought · 01/04/2016 23:52

I am a health professional and it sounds like you have done exactly the right thing.

Resuscitation is not like you see it in TV, it's brutal (broken ribs, punctured lungs, ruptured internal organs to deal with if you were to survive), undignified and more then 90% of the time it does not work. I wouldn't wish it for myself or my loved ones in the twilight of life.

Doctors used to be able to decide who was "DNAR" but now have to consult the patient or relatives. In principle this is a good thing, but my concern is exactly your situation - you end up feeling like it is you sentencing her to death. You are not!

Please be assured that if a doctor is asking this question, they know that CPR is likely to be futile.

I much prefer the term "allow a natural death" to "do not attempt resuscitation".

AuntMabel · 01/04/2016 23:54

You will know that you've done the right thing, and you will know if it's what your Nan would have wanted.

In January I was with my own Nan who had terminal cancer when she gave DNR consent. Every bone in my body wanted to shout no and beg them to try something else, but I knew there was nothing else they could do.

When the end came, by which time she had been moved to a care home (not sure if this is an option for you or you are aware of CHC funding?) it was very peaceful and the DNR was not needed. She slipped away whilst my mum and I were holding her hand. I hope you and your lovely Nan both find peace soon Flowers

nocoffeenouppee · 01/04/2016 23:55

Well done. It's hard to be rational when someone you know is unwell but you have done the right thing. It's not a death sentence, you don't have that power-she's dying anyway. You're championing her right to a peaceful and dignified death and that is worth much more than our society places on it. Resuscitation is not gentle and it's successful much less often than its seems on tv. It's normal to want to do 'everything' for a loved one but it's not always the kindest thing Flowers

DementedUnicorn · 01/04/2016 23:56

Elfycat is totally bang on. Huge huge difference in not resuscitating and not providing care.

Stay strong and Thanks

CockacidalManiac · 02/04/2016 00:01

I am a health professional and it sounds like you have done exactly the right thing

Me too. I hope someone does it for me when the time comes.

gasman · 02/04/2016 00:08

I'm a HCP.

I fought and fought along with my siblings to get my aunt and grandfather to accept a DNAR for my Gran.

Like yours she had irreversible pathology.

The thought of the arrest team desecrating her body and removing her dignity in death when her illnesses had already caused her to lose so much haunted me. It didn't help that I had led the arrest team in that hospital, on her Ward many times. I was really stressed at the time and kept having horrible dreams about people I know drawing the curtains round her bed and ripping off her flowery M&S PJs to do chest compressions.

I know what an arrest call is like there is no way I would want a relative who is simply dying resuscitated. People still die. Humans are still mortal. As a society we need to get more comfortable with this.

In the end she had a DNAR and skipped away after falling asleep naturally.

Best outcome anyone could have hoped for tbh.

sandgrown · 02/04/2016 00:08

My DD cared for her paternal grandma and had to make difficult decisions. The rest of the family only took notice when she became really ill but still tried criticise what DD had done. I think they felt guilty they had not done more. You have made the right decision for your nan. Look after yourself Flowers

CockacidalManiac · 02/04/2016 00:23

I think people think that CPR is like it appears in films and tv. It's not. It's very often undignified and grim.
Signing a DNR is sometimes the kindest thing you can do for anyone.

unlucky83 · 02/04/2016 00:34

You love her enough to do the right thing. To do the best for her not you. Flowers

I don't know if this helps but I am as certain as I can be that I would do the same for someone I loved.

I watched my nan die in agony. If I could have pressed a button to stop her suffering I would have done, without a seconds hesitation. Hopefully your nan will die peacefully, all you have done is increase the likelihood of that happening.
And quality of life is more important than just breathing.
My great aunt in her early 80s was seriously ill, against the odds she survived. We were all so happy and relieved. But before she had a reasonable quality of life, in a home with good company and full of mischief, liked to stir things up. Afterwards she just wasn't the same - she was very weak and spent most of her time in bed in her room, just occasionally, if she was well enough, she was in a special chair in a quiet area of the day room. She was never well enough to interact with others, needed help to feed herself, didn't really know who we were etc. She was like that for 6 years, surviving but not really living.

Be kind to yourself ... Flowers

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 02/04/2016 00:47

An elderly neighbour of ours was resuscitated after a heart attack - not his first. He told me afterwards that the after-effects were so painful, he wished they'd just let him go. He did in fact die not many months later.

DNR is not a death sentence - it doesn't mean your man will not be treated for anything, but there are times, especially when someone is old and already very ill, that it can be kinder to let Nature take its course.

I signed a DNR for my mother, who was well into her 90s with advanced dementia. In the event it was unnecessary, since she faded away naturally at 97. But I would not have felt guilty if it had been invoked. She had been in such a pitiful state for a long time, none of us could have wished for anyone to 'strive to keep alive', and we knew her former, pre dementia self would never have wanted them to.
Please don't let anyone make you feel bad or guilty - I am sure your Nan would not want you to.

ShadowsCollideIsSurroundedByAd · 02/04/2016 01:15

Oh, massive hugs to you, Eve. I've been there with my Granda and it's so difficult. Although in Granda's case it was withdrawal of care as opposed to DNR. It was a horribly painful decision to make.

However it was absolutely the right decision. He was in terrible pain and ready to go. The nurses and doctors were amazing. In particular the doctor who managed his treatment on his very last day. She treated him with such respect and tenderness, it was beautiful. And she will forever have a special place in my heart for that. In the end, he died peacefully, surrounded by his family. He had an air of serenity about him that I think we'd have robbed him of, had we insisted on additional days of tubes, and bright lights and bleeping machines and pain. He died peacefully, in a quiet room, with dimmed lights, no machines but the morphine pump tucked under his pillow, and family all around.

You have cared for your Nan amazingly. You have washed her, made sure that she was taking her medications, made sure she was eating. You have looked after her so well, and now you're still looking after her by making this very difficult decision. It's so painful, I know. But you really are looking after your Nan, to the very end.

You will be in my thoughts. Flowers

sepa · 02/04/2016 01:30

You have made the right decision for your nan..

What a horrid position you are in, especially given your family are making you feel like rubbish for it. Losing a grand parent is never going to be easy, the decision you have made suck (in terms of the way it's making you feel) but this way you will allow your nan to die with dignity instead of a potentially horrid resuscitation.

You have not just 'signed her death warrant' your nan can not be cured and therefore prolonging a life of suffering for a few extra days is cruel

I'm sorry your going through the op Flowers

AnUtterIdiot · 02/04/2016 05:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Maidofrohan · 02/04/2016 05:47

Another nurse here... You've not sentenced your grandmother to death. You have given her a chance to have a peaceful and dignified passing. Don't listen to your family (or the media), DNAR simply means that if your grandmother's heart stops, she is allowed to go in peace (and not have a load of doctors and nurses trying to resus her). Having had to do CPR on patients in a similar situation to you grandmother (where families/patients refused the red form), I promise you that I know what I'd rather have (for myself if/when I'm in that situation and for my loved ones). You did the kindest and most loving thing possible for her X

SuddenlySad · 02/04/2016 06:03

You've performed an act of ultimate kindness. We went through this with my dad last year. It was absolutely the right thing to do. Dying surrounded by people who love you rather than machines artificially prolonging your life is all that any of us can hope for.