To think saying house prices could crash if we brexit will be a plus for many

[feellikeahugefailure]

The BoE and other banks say this as if it is universally bad news. If it stops the vast amount of foreign speculation on UK property then many will see it as a good thing.

Even if you own your own home, its paper gains unless you sell it. So even homeowners might want prices to fall as otherwise their children may never own a home.

"We could join their trading bloc. I'd like that."

You think we would have the same level of trade with NAFTA or PIF as we do the EU?

Clutching at straws now aren't we.

You can't refute academic evidence (not a newspaper btw), neither can you refute that other nations outside the EU, but with as strong links to the EU as the UK have had to accept freedom of movement and adherence to EU legisiation.

Li

Lurked

Try to understand rather than just parroting UCL studies that were done a few years ago, with a different demographic Those mainly single original migrants have not gone home and many have now turned into my Model Migrant Family

That is why I am asking you to consider reality rather than hiding behind some old research that is now out of date and probably funded by the Ej anyway (I would need to check). that is why I am asking you to work out the cost of the Model Migrant family. There is plenty in the press about the numbers of births to migrant couples to support the fact that they are having families in this country. I'm not posting the links because I prefer to work stuff out for myself.

I am all for migration - from throughout the wired instead of from Little Europe, the EU. I want migrants who will ALL be a net contributor to the UK. I don't want to have to give freedom to come and live in the UK and be supported by the UK Govt to any EU migrant who fancies coming here,regardless of whether they are a net contributor or now

Why do we need to import 20 hand car-washers, and 80 Big Issue Sellers in order to import one highly skilled, / highly paid EU migrant. That is my point

The UCL link is not addressing that problem. Not ALL migrants benefit this country. Period

If they weren't here, prepared to do the job, what would happen?

British companies would have less staff.

Springing

That's what I was trying to say. Only i did it far less eloquently.

Immigration on our terms. Is that really too much to ask?

There is plenty in the press about the numbers of births to migrant couples to support the fact that they are having families in this country. I'm not posting the links because I prefer to work stuff out for myself.

I'm not sure how you work out stuff for yourself without data.

^^"We could join their trading bloc. I'd like that."

You think we would have the same level of trade with NAFTA or PIF as we do the EU?

Clutching at straws now aren't we. ^

I'm greedy. I'm going to trade freely with the EU and with all the other global trading blocs. It's 2016, we have these things called cargo,planes and container ships. I can get bespoke items from the other side of the world in days. That's the trouble with the pro-EU lot, they keep failing to acknowledge there's a wider world out there.

You can't refute academic evidence (not a newspaper btw), neither can you refute that other nations outside the EU, but with as strong links to the EU as the UK have had to accept freedom of movement and adherence to EU legisiation.

Wrong

I can refute that it is still relevant. I can refute it on the grounds that these migrants in which it was based are now having families in the UK. I can refute it on many grounds
Try reading and learning the difference between
Common Markets
Single Markets
Unified Markets

Then you will understand that it's perfectly possible to trade without accepting freedom of movement of people. Just like the other 168 countries in the world do

Read somewhere (can't remember where) that 25% of UK births are to ethnic minority families (I assume that includes those from Eastern Europe?

Don't shoot the messenger!

Immigration on our terms. Is that really too much to ask?

Yes, because all international deals are a compromise and involve give and take. We can leave the EU tomorrow, but it will still be there, a massive group of people right next door who we rely on for trade, security, international policy deals, energy deals etc. etc.

26.5% in 2014.

My memory must be improving.

Read somewhere (can't remember where) that 25% of UK births are to ethnic minority families (I assume that includes those from Eastern Europe?

And what does that have to do with anything?

Merry

Why does that mean we have to accept unregulated and unlimited immigration?

I'm not sure how you work out stuff for yourself without data

We have this marvellous thing called the Internet
If you take my Model Migrant Family as an example it tells you
What the minimum wage is gov.uk
It can calculate a family's benefits. Entitled to
It can tell you the Local Housing Allowance payable in any area of England and the eligibility
It can tell you the cost of a school place
It can tell you how much health money is consumed at what ages in what area for what conditions
It can tell you whether you qualify for free school,meals
It can tell you the cost of an NHS birth

And just like the UCL, you can work out the cost of a migrant. Except they based their costs on mainly single migrants. My Model Migrant family is the grown up version

It tells you

Merry

Because someone asked up thread? Perhaps you might want to read it.

We have this marvellous thing called the Internet

Good to know the quality of your information.

Or we could just save time and get to the part where you call me a Nazi/knuckle dragger/Daily Mail reader?

Helpful Chap, I always try to comply with talk guidelines so I would not call you anything. I still don't understand the relevance of births to ethnic minorities and free movement of people in the EU. Ethnic minority could include somebody whose family have lived here for a century, and wouldn't include somebody from France.

Immigration on our terms. Is that really too much to ask?

Yes, because all international deals are a compromise and involve give and take.

Lol. I shall use that argument on my next application to emigrate to Australia. I'll let you know if it's successful - though I fear it won't be.

We can leave the EU tomorrow, but it will still be there, a massive group of people right next door who we rely on for trade, security, international policy deals, energy deals etc. etc.

Trade - mutual
Security - they rely on our 5 eyes access to U.S. CT int. Brussels? Undocumented migrants? NATO whether we're in or out?
International Policy - I think you'll find we managed to do tat ourselves for centuries before the EU. It stops us occupying our World Trade Organisation seat. I have yet to see any effective international policy initiated by the EU. It usually has to ask Mummy NATO or Daddy US for help to sort out its problems
Energy Deals - no. I think you'll find were buying a nuclear energy plant from the Chinese. EDF will still sell U.S. power after we've kept. We are a cash cow

Someone up thread mentioned the birth rate, another poster called them out on it and asked for proof, the original poster couldn't be bothered (sensibly as it turns out!) so out of interest I did.

As I have mentioned a dozen times, I am pro-immigration but on terms that suit the UK. I think that is reasonable.

Where do you get your information from Merry? The local library?

Actually the 26% refers to babies born to mothers not born themselves in the UK, nothing to do with ethnic minorities (so certainly does include a woman born in France).

I stand corrected ;-)

International Policy - I think you'll find we managed to do tat ourselves for centuries before the EU.

For centuries millions of people died because of fighting within the EU. it was difficult to avoid these disagreements, even when Britain wasn't directly involved because Europe is less than 100 miles away.

I think you will find that much of our energy arrives in pipes that cross the EU, what with it being geographically next door.

Yes you can transport goods to other countries, but until technology catches up with Star Trek and we have transporters, greater distance will always involve cost in terms of time and expense.

You seem to think that the only thing tying us to the EU is red tape, but that isn't how international policy works. Agreements change as the balance of power shifts, regardless of what has been agreed before. The balance of power will be exactly the same whatever the result of the referendum. Life will go on as before, but with a bump in turnover for law firms.

The UCL study was actually produced in 2014 and looked at data from 2000 to 20011 onwards it did add up:

What the minimum wage is gov.uk
It can calculate a family's benefits. Entitled to
It can tell you the Local Housing Allowance payable in any area of England and the eligibility
It can tell you the cost of a school place
It can tell you how much health money is consumed at what ages in what area for what conditions
It can tell you whether you qualify for free school,meals
It can tell you the cost of an NHS birth

And worked out that immigrants were a fiscal contributor, not in deficit, as did the Oxford University data, you haven't provided anything evidence based other than your assumptions.

"I'm greedy. I'm going to trade freely with the EU and with all the other global trading blocs. It's 2016, we have these things called cargo,planes and container ships. I can get bespoke items from the other side of the world in days. That's the trouble with the pro-EU lot, they keep failing to acknowledge there's a wider world out there. "

You are also in cloud cuckoo land if you think that will happen. Have you any precedent for any country coming out with that sort of agreement from other trading bloc?

Where do you get your information from Merry? confused The local library?

With a healthy dose of cynicism and ideally checked by 'More or Less' on radio 4.

I'm certainly not trusting that EU workers are costing the country money because you have to assume that they are in low skilled jobs and have a low skilled partner and 2 children.

I'm not sure it will make that much difference. If the banks aren't granting mortgages. High or low the situation will stay the same --- I think...