to ask if some drivers really do have this opinion about motorcyclists?

[Shinyredbike]

I ride a bike. A shiny red one in fact

I'm a member of a biker group/page thing on FB and came across a rather nasty post, it was a screenshot of someone ranting about motorcyclists and how irresponsible they are, how they should grow up and get a car and stop messing around on their toys (bikes).

He also suggested that it wasn't his responsibility to look out for bikers when he is driving, as the adverts suggest you should, and that bascially if you ride a bike its your own fault if you get injured or killed as you shouldn't be on a bike in the first place.

Now, obviously this particular guy was a prick but is his view actually quite representative of a lot of drivers? Ok they might not say it so harshly but actually I do think, from the conversations I've had with car drivers that a lot of them do seem to feel this way.

I know a lot of bikers do ride like twats and obviously they shouldn't, and I can't blame car drivers who dislike bikers who act this way but aibu to wonder if some drivers really do just inherently dislike bikers even when they don't ride like twats?

Fwiw, I don't ride like a twat, I don't speed, overtake stupidly or filter when I shouldn't. Actually I don't really filter at all because in most cases I don't feel safe doing it but I've had some pretty harsh comments directed at me just because I prefer bikes over cars, as if I am some sort of idiot with a death wish!

I'm learning to ride a bike (a black shiny one ), it's bloody tricky and you do feel very very vulnerable. Thanks car drivers for being understanding as I stall for the millionth time in traffic.

Fantastic, I think most bikers don't have a choice but to Think Car, as they are the dominant vehicles on the road. We are certainly very aware of them, we have to be for our own safety. The trouble is, twats who ride like the rules don't apply to them don't care about anyone else other than themselves.

As far as I understand it (admittedly I could be wrong), a biker should only be filtering in very slow moving or stationary traffic. So the point about 2 second gaps should be moot really because if a biker is filtering as they should then everyone should be either stopped or moving very slowly anyway so there would be no need to slam your brakes on, surely?

To the PP who commented about bikes weaving all over the place, there's probably drivers who would have thought I was doing this but as a car driver you don't necessarily realise how bad road surfaces can be and all the potholes/stones/fuel on the road etc and it affects us a lot worse than it affects you. So we need to take steps to avoid it. I regularly ride on country lanes full of mud, manure, sand, stones, bits of tree, deep/multiple potholes etc.

Magrat if you'd read my post, I didn't say 'car space', I was trying to explain what I meant about bikes cutting into gaps in slow moving traffic, having overtaken. Lweji expressed it better than me, though. I don't like the attitude that because a bike can get around some cars in a slow moving line, they then have the right to pull in a bit further along, slowing down the queue further, just because they are bikes. I don't like any vehicle doing it. And as for your poster - a bike won't hold you up? Huh? If they cut in to the safety gap you've left, and force you to slow down to re-establish that gap, then they do slow you down, so that's nonsense.

The 2 second gap came up because someone started taking about leaving "safety distances" (which would be more applicable in moving traffic than in jams, though it is always prudent to leave a certain distance with the car in front in a jam, most drivers don't). But yes, filtering is done past slow or stationary traffic, with a speed differential of no more than 15-20 mph greater than the traffic being filtered past.

Some of these arguments remind me of being 20-something and being knocked off my push bike in central London, which according to the driver whose bonnet I went over, was OK because, "all you bikes jump lights and stuff anyway". Thankfully the police who prosecuted him for driving without due care and attention didn't agree with him.

Today 19.40, "taking up a full 'car' space".

It's not a 'car' space.

Perhaps you'd prefer bikers who use their bikes for commuting to use cars instead. The roads will then be even more congested, and that will show the traffic down even further, given those people would now be occupying full 'car' spaces in the traffic. For my work, commute times would increase considerably, petrol costs would increase considerably and therefore my costs would go up, meaning my prices would go up. This could be the case for many bike commuters, rather than the weekend warriors who ride less than 300 miles a year in sunny weather and are a nuisance to all.

Oh and btw, before anyone jumps down my throat with the push bike story, I wasn't jumping the lights when I got knocked off, I was cycling along minding my own business and the guy who took me off was driving the wrong way down the road.

seems a good time to point up the govt's Cycling and Walking Strategy that's being unveiled to day, 27th. First showing here

OP not all car drivers think like that but it is safer for us, on bikes, to think they do. You always need to be thinking about what everyone else on the road is doing or you won't be on two wheels for long. The majority in their hermetically sealed, side impact protection and air bag installed little boxes are in a world of their own, not too bothered about what's going on behind them , let alone to either side.

Obviously I'm not including the MN drivers in this as you all do your observations and signal but please as nice as it is when cars pull to the left to let us through, look before you do as there could be, and often is down South, a cyclist on your inside. I'm quite capable of overtaking you without you veering out of the way, and will do quite quickly and safely, and be on my way.

Lots of bikes, but only shiney when DH or DSs offer to clean them, life's too short for doing it myself.

magrat the quote is actually:

taking up a full 'car' space (rather than being alongside, IYSWIM, not implying that road space is only for cars)

HTH

to be fair it doesn't really help, I don't think. Calling something a 'car space' but then issuing a disclaimer that it isn't really a space for a car is a bit nuts tbh.
It still reeks of this notion that roads are for cars, rather than it being purely a public utility that anyone can (legally) do with - scooter, ride a horse, drive a tractor, play hop-scotch, ride a bike.

I was riding to work this morning and it was totally free of cars, it was bliss

Lovely isn't it! Drivers can be such selfish arses there is a motorway round about that I ride over on a cycle path. Often drivers totally block the round about for each other due to weight of traffic, and not having the ability to think.
The result is I can ride across 3 empty lanes, swinging all over the place - this is on an arterial road, about 3 miles from Manchester centre.
It doesn't happen often enough!

And let's not get started on box junctions!! The moral of this tale is, if you don't want to be stuck in traffic, ride a bike or cycle, even walking is quicker down here in rush hour.

Calling something a 'car space' but then issuing a disclaimer that it isn't really a space for a car is a bit nuts tbh

Surely it just means a space the size of a car. Hence the ' ' round car.

thanks for clearing that up Soupy. It's all clear now. Thanks.

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not, which is a shame.

I have a licence and have had a motorcycle, haven't had one for a few years though. I totally respect bikers and their vulnerability and have absolutely no issue with moving aside for them, or leaving room for them at traffic lights. Obviously if a (rare) dickhead is sitting on my bumper waiting to overtake, I might curse them a bit for being annoying but my main feeling is that I really don't want him/her hurting themselves on my car because they haven't left themselves enough space.

I've had 2 incidents with bikers when I've been driving a car - one was riding with his front wheel virtually in my boot, so much so that when I paused at a roundabout he had to brake very hard and dropped his bike.

The other was in Hammersmith where I was attempting to turn right from a minor road onto a major, into two lanes of 2-way, gridlocked London traffic. A large van paused to let me out and I crept across, my vision blocked by the height of the van. A biker filtering between the 2 lanes appears from behind the van, jumps slightly at the unexpected sight of the corner of my car and has a wobble, sticks both feet out and rides gently into my front bumper. It was quite gentle but he did of course slither rather gracefully to the ground.

Because I was turning right onto a major road and didn't (couldn't have) seen him, the accident was always going to be my fault. There was not a mark on my car, which I think speaks volumes about the extremely low velocity collision, but the guy claimed against my insurance for lost earnings, inconvenience, personal inury and post traumatic stress, to the tune of about £15k.

Hey ho. He was really rude to me as well, although I can't say I blame him.

Oh, is there a moral to this lengthy diatribe - no, just always assume a biker is going to appear from nowhere.

SoupDragon a misery!? I think you must be thinking of some other username. But even if you are, there's no need to be so... aggressive.

Shinyredbike,

Shouldn't you be DirtyHarrietInACar, Harriet

Haha, I knew someone would notice! It's a figure of speech, obviously. I loved riding my bicycle as a child in the sleepy village I come from. Obviously, not in heavy traffic cities.

Humpty are you implying that bikes should only be in the traffic alongside cars . A space but enough for a car is also big enough for a bike, which if filtering does need to rejoin the traffic safely at some point, unless you think we should only ride in the middle of the road at all times. It's therefore not a 'car' space is a vehicle space, to be occupied by whichever form of vehicle is in need of it at the time.

HTH

Billy I can't believe he claimed all that stuff! Seems unfair.

The scariest incident I've had was riding down a single track country lane near me, one with lots of blind corners but one I'm very familiar with as I ride on it reguarly. As such I know that cars/other vehicles can appear round the corner as if from nowhere at very short notice, so I always keep my speed down (20-25mph).

Large white van appears around the corner racing down the lane, must have been doing at least 50-60mph if not more. He saw me, mouthed 'oh fuck' and literally jumped on his brakes. Left skid marks 20ft long. It was such a wide van/small lane that I had no space to go into to avoid him and there were high grass verges on either side so all I could do was throw myself in the verge and pray he stopped in time. He did but only just! I had to pull over down the road until I stopped shaking

Shiny sounds similar to dh's accident, except the white van hit him and drove off leaving him in the middle of the road (in the middle of the countryside) with a broken leg. He laid in the middle of the road for half an hour before another vehicle came along and helped him. Police still haven't found the driver. If dh had not completed RoSPA training (which he passed at Gold level, the highest civilian driving qualification), his road positioning would have been entirely different and the accident would almost certainly have been fatal.

magrat - fine, a 'vehicle' space (though that means it would have to be big enough for any vehicle, including massive artics). As soupdragon gathered (thank Christ for some sanity), I meant 'a space approximately large enough for a car, which would be available for any other road-legal vehicle that could fit in it'. Catchy.

Seriously, are you this defensive about everything? I was asking for information. I was tired and not expressing myself perfectly. You have confirmed my vague notion that bikers often have an entitled, defensive and chippy attitude to car drivers, so well done. I won't stop being considerate to bikers, but I will wonder if they are like you, and under their leathers are boiling with rage at car drivers for having the potential to stop you riding as you please.

Humpty, I don't "ride as I please" or even close. However, I do get frustrated by drivers like you who have the arrogance to think they are considerate, of "think bike" without the slightest bit of understanding as to how or why bikers use the road as they do. Perhaps educate yourself about that and then come back and say you are considerate, rather than referring to spaces on the road as "car" spaces.

You still have not answered my question as to how you expect bikes to reintegrate in the traffic after filtering, or are they expected to only ride in the middle of the road alongside cars, with their "car" spaces?

I was told when I was first learning, to, "ride as though everyone else is out to kill you". For the most part, that is true and I do err on the side of caution, unlike most car drivers ime who seem to think they own the road.

Seriously though, do you not have enough compassion to realise how car drivers treat bikers is a touchy subject when my uncle was knocked off (the off-duty police rider who witnessed everything thought he was looking at a fatality) and the woman who did it lied, even in court. Whilst my dh was left in the middle of a country road by a hit and run driver with a broken leg? We now use helmet cams (which btw can be used against you as a biker in cases of dangerous riding, so we are confident on THAT front), but they provide evidence should any of us get involved in yet another hit and run.

Of course, being one of only a small number of bikers on here, it's easy to have a scape-goat in one of the ultra-conservative, safety conscious bikers, rather than going into a biker forum full of the knee-down bridage to ask the same questions.

I'd suggest, if you seriously are interested in educating yourself (which I suspect not), look up Think Biker, which is a government campaign on Facebook and ask your questions there. Perhaps you can even ask whether it is OK for bikes to fit in to "car" spaces when trying to reintegrate with traffic after filtering. Good luck.