to ask if some drivers really do have this opinion about motorcyclists?

[Shinyredbike]

I ride a bike. A shiny red one in fact

I'm a member of a biker group/page thing on FB and came across a rather nasty post, it was a screenshot of someone ranting about motorcyclists and how irresponsible they are, how they should grow up and get a car and stop messing around on their toys (bikes).

He also suggested that it wasn't his responsibility to look out for bikers when he is driving, as the adverts suggest you should, and that bascially if you ride a bike its your own fault if you get injured or killed as you shouldn't be on a bike in the first place.

Now, obviously this particular guy was a prick but is his view actually quite representative of a lot of drivers? Ok they might not say it so harshly but actually I do think, from the conversations I've had with car drivers that a lot of them do seem to feel this way.

I know a lot of bikers do ride like twats and obviously they shouldn't, and I can't blame car drivers who dislike bikers who act this way but aibu to wonder if some drivers really do just inherently dislike bikers even when they don't ride like twats?

Fwiw, I don't ride like a twat, I don't speed, overtake stupidly or filter when I shouldn't. Actually I don't really filter at all because in most cases I don't feel safe doing it but I've had some pretty harsh comments directed at me just because I prefer bikes over cars, as if I am some sort of idiot with a death wish!

Wow, wouldn't wish dearth on any other road user
The rear view mirror should be checked every 5-10 seconds. My driving instructor actually patented a device that flashes red above the mirror every 7 seconds to remind you. It's second nature to me now and makes me very aware of drivers (when I'm a passenger) that just use theirs to hang an air freshener off

I did a big drive last week and was really depressed to see how many people were still texting/messing with their phones and driving. Idiots.

I've seen cyclists texting and cycling too

defineme I would love a proper infrastructure of cycle paths so that I didn't have to ride my bike on the road. But we are nowhere close to that where I live (in a so-called 'cycling city').

So the roads it is. And I don't have a car, bike is how I get to work and get around, it's not a Sunday afternoon hobby.

Hmmm An infrastructure of bike paths...that aren't full of rubbish, glass etc (likely thrown from car windows..), pedestrians....and parked cars who fail to recognise it's a fucking BIKE lane. These same twats who later that day will sound off about people who ride bikes not sticking to the laws of the road.

Drivers are often massive tossers, and often don't have the self-awareness to know how big a tosser they actually are.

Like i said on the horse thread, does anybody really think a sane person would choose to bike/ride on a busy road if there were bridlepaths/cycle routes available.

No one has that much of a death wish, or enjoys sharing space with tons of badly driven speeding metal in close proximity, many of which are under the control of an idiot who doesn't care about our safety.

We're on the road because there are no alternatives.

Filtering might well be legal, but so is overtaking where no solid white line is but that doesn't mean I overtake slow moving vehicles on bends or when visibility is compromised or a car is coming the other way. If traffic is essentially stationary, then by all means continue to move through, but I definitely don't expect to see a motorbike appear in between me and another car, sat in one lane each on a dual carriageway while doing 70. I am good at reading the road, I have friends in the police that have commented on my ability to be aware of my surroundings and what dickheads are appearing from behind me, but I think if a bike wants to overtake a car moving at normal speeds it should have to use a suitable space in the next lane, or as a car would on single carriageway, not scoot right next you in between lanes.

I always try and leave the same space as I would for a car when overtaking a bike (pedal or motor) and this means moving completely to the next lane where one exists. Bikes should give cars the same space back. The exception being stationary traffic.

they should aim for noticible, bright clothing rather than camouflage

Which stays bright until it gets covered in road grime and turns grey - which happens surprisingly quickly. Most manufacturers have got around this by having nice, very noticeable bright headlights which are on all the time.

Hate motorbikes and cyclists. Really stressful because they do dangerous or odd things and add to my things to watch out for when driving. It's the way they suddenly appear alongside you that freaks me out. If I move position in the lane slightly I risk taking out a stray bike that's decided to ride parallel or overtake at a weird place

Things which arent necessarily odd or dangerous if youre a motorcyclist or, I suppose, if youre paying proper attention to what's going on around you. They dont suddenly appear from nowhere.

mamacasshadahairyass I get that cloths and helmets get grubby but a motorcyclist wearing brightly coloured stuff is a lot easier to see. Headlights are good too but only if you are in front.

A neon helmet and vest might not be as cool but it would undoubtedly make you easier to see. I don't think it's any more effort to wipe down a helmet/high viz vest than it is to wipe down your headlight.

I wear a neon vest with reflective bits on if when I'm on my push bike. I admit it looks a bit duff but whatev's

Yep, they may make you easier to see but the problem I find is that people dont look in the first place.

I do polish my (bright red) helmet and visor regularly.

And i have a very fetching fluoro pink jacket for when Im on my bicycle 😎

Sounds lovely. I promise I look, look and look again.

I have a link somewhere (trying to find it) to a clip from Dutch news in which a police biker with full on hi-vis gets hit by a car whilst in full view on an open road. Whilst hi-vis increases your chances of being seen by those who look, a good proportion of drivers don't look. Human sight has also developed in such a way as to filter out some information if things are moving quickly and hence sideways movement near junctions can make bikes more likely to be seen, whereas hi-vis alone doesn't necessarily. That said, I do (mostly) wear it and I also have a white helmet. Headlights don't switch off on modern bikes.

lampygirl motorbikes appearing between lanes at 70mph is not filtering, that's dangerous driving and should be prosecuted.

I have to say though, I do report drivers I catch on my helmet cam who are using their phones whilst driving. That call/text/Facebook post really isn't THAT important that you can't just leave your phone in your bag whilst driving.

I don't have a problem with motorcyclists and try to be 'bike aware' . I generally find them to be good road users but that's not to say I haven't seen some very dangerous behaviours on the part of bikers, usually involving insane speed. But, their loss (probably literally) . Of course we've all seen dreadful car drivers too.
But the most irresponsible behaviour I have seen among road users is by cyclists. They do not seem to recognise their own vulnerability at all!
I have been left open-mouthed at cyclists running red lights, (and even saw a really unpleasant accident when one cyclist was hit by an oncoming turning car which had right of way ) , riding on pavements, cycling across the road on zebra crossings and some very aggressive behaviour towards pedestrians in general. DH, standing outside a shop, was sworn at by a cyclist to get out of the fucking way as though the rider owned the pavement!
It's as if there's some kind of bizarre pecking order on the road with pedestrians at the bottom of the heap, being abused by the next lowest, the cyclists.
Against this we have a backdrop of cycling lobbies saying that in an accident involving a bicycle and a car, the car driver should automatically be considered to be at fault. Sorry, but no. Not these days in London, anyway.
Last night in London in one 10 minute period, I saw one cyclist in dark clothing, no helmet or protective gear, barely visible and no lights on her bike at all, and another riding on the pavement and turning right, across the pavement, to ride across the road on a zebra crossing weaving in and out through alongside pedestrians. Including children.

"But the most irresponsible behaviour I have seen among road users is by cyclists"

Really? I mean..really?

Well, these days, in London the behaviour of cyclists is a real problem. Literally jaw-dropping.
In London, average car speeds are now less than 10 mph and many boroughs have 20 mph as a general limit anyway, with lots of speed cameras. So traffic is almost always very slow.
(I'm not talking about at 3 am, although central London can till be surprisingly busy even at that time). But cyclists can't be caught by speed cameras as they have no reg. numbers and the many cycle despatch riders, for example, can and do achieve speeds of over 20 mph.
But although they might not be a deadly danger to car drivers, cyclists are certainly much more a danger to themselves and pedestrians, and IME in terms of irresponsibility they take the prize.

Additionally, there have been several very sad fatalities in London among cyclists wanting to turn left at traffic lights and have pulled up alongside HGVs on the inside, where they are quite invisible to the driver, and then been hit as the truck has also turned left. They think they can get away before the HGV but sadly don't make it. Just to save a couple of seconds.

I've seen some absolutely atrocious driving from motorcyclists. Where I live there are loads of country lanes and I only occasionally see a motorcyclist who isn't being reckless. I have a fairly bad view of motorcyclists from the experiences I have had. My dad has a fast bike, and he'll openly admit that him and his biker friends do 140+.

I've seen some extremely stupid behaviour, seen one come off his bike from taking a corner WAY too fast. Overtaking on bends, overtaking on solid white lines, and the speed is extortionate.

I pulled out of a junction once on a 30 road and a bike came around the bend probably doing 70+ and almost went into the back of me because he was going too fast to slow in enough time. I had already pulled out before he came around the bend.

I would say that 90% of the bikers around here are reckless with no care for other road users.

DH recently went on a speed awareness course (yeah, he's just as bad and I can't say that I've never sped either - nobody is perfect) and the instructors said that 1% of road users are motorcyclists, BUT... 50% of the people on the course we're caught speeding on motorcycles. So what does that say?

I'm sure there are many many motorcyclists who are safe drivers, and I'm sure there are many many car drivers who shouldn't be driving.

However, I don't see many safe motorcyclists around here, and that has an impact on your view of them.

I do look out for them. Always have and always will, the same as I do for cyclists, horse riders, pedestrians, geese, sheep, cows etc.

Shouldn't you be DirtyHarrietInACar, Harriet

I can assure you I'm not suicidal!

It does seem that a lot of knobs who like going fast get bikes, Red. Maybe its the adrenalin but surely there are other ways of getting it that don't involve potentially killing/injuring yourself/others?

Mind you, I still feel that 70mph is quite fast, no way I'd go 140+ even if I could, I'd be too scared!

We call them "weekend warriors", Red. They have all the gear and no idea and usually only twice a year on sunny Sunday afternoons, hence they don't ride enough to develop/maintain the skills to ride their over powered sports bikes. Other bikers tend to dislike that type too. They are like the boy racers of the biking world.

Unfortunately, they are the ones everyone sees and remembers, but they don't think, " oh look at that bike being ridden well not going above the speed limit". I inevitably find when I'm doing 30 in a 30 zone (which I do stick to rigidly, or below if conditions don't allow for 30), I get tailgated by some arse in a 4x4 who has no idea that the distance I require to stop on a bike is a fraction of that needed by a car and he runs a very real risk of rear-ending me if I need to stop quickly.

Whenever I see a biker I worry about how vulnerable they are and hope ds never gets a bike. I hate driving behind one and leave a huge gap.

I am insanely jealous don't mind when they filter at the traffic lights I've been sitting at for 3 goes etc., but do mind when the gap is obviously too narrow to do safely and they bump my wing mirror when doing it (has happened twice) and don't acknowledge or check if there is any damage. As usual one or two twats....

I have lost two uncles in motorcycle accidents and I am hyper-aware of them because of it. I always shoulder-check everywhere. Roundabouts, lane changing, turning at traffic lights etc.

That said, I think some motorcyclists need to remember that roads are not racetracks. Motorcycles (most of the time) can outperform and outmanouvre anything else on the road. They're amazing bits of kit, and if I thought it wouldn't upset my mum so much I'd love to learn. But for gods sake, save the racing for the race track. I have seen the results of two very nasty accidents on the country roads around me, both times caused by motorcyclists who obviously had no respect for the power of their bikes or the safety of other road users.

How could you not hear a bike "doing 70+" approaching, just out of interest?

On a side issue, I'd love to introduce an awareness course for pedestrians. Every single day some there's at least one gormless git that will walk out in front of me whilst concentrating only on their phone, usually whilst wearing headphones, not bothering to look before they step out in front of me. Then they have the cheek to make out im the one that's in the wrong.

Things will be different when Im in charge, I tells ye! 😀

Agreed Magrat, but I see it every day so to be fair I do expect it when I see a weaving bike coming up behind me. It does make you think motorcyclists have a bit of a death wish, and while I agree it will only be a minority of them you can't tell from a distance in a your rear view mirror so you have to assume the worst to aid accident prevention.

Sadly there are many things in life where the minority ruin it for the majority, and so me giving space to motorcyclists weaving on the motorway is one of those things. I will remove the gap so they can't put themselves dangerously into it in the first place.

If it makes motorcyclists feel any better, I also assume all drivers with their fog lights on when it's not foggy and usually a headlight out at night are useless too given their inability to be aware of their surroundings, and make sure I give them a wide berth.

In fairness lampy one of my headlights went as I was driving home at night once. I'm not really sure what else I could have done, other than carried on and got it to Halfords the next morning. I think the RAC may have laughed at me if I'd tried to call them out for a blown headlight.

I'm not fond of bikers because they worry me so much - they're closer to the back of my car than I'd like, squishier inside their leathers than I'd like, and lean too far past 90 degrees towards the road than I'd like. I always think they're going to end up a pink wobbly mess.

However. Because of that I always give them a wide berth and let them pass if they're wanting to so someone else can be responsible for hurting them

What I REALLY don't like about bikers is the way their bloody arsing fucking engines roar up the road at 2 in the morning. Who needs an exhaust that loud? Really, who? Dinosaurs don't roar that loud and they eat things bigger than people.

Bastards. < grumpy lack of sleep >