to think that Cultural Christianity is not a baffling concept?

[GooseberryRoolz]

I keep reading and hearing apparent bafflement about this.

It's NOT baffling is it?

Rorty, I agree. I'm keen to get to the heart of these labels because they're often meaningless.

I think I am a Cultural Christian. As Actively Anxious says a few posts ago:

*Rather I would use the label to express the fact that, for all that I don't believe in God, Christianity still subtly shapes the way I interact with and experience the world. I know the Bible very well, and verses / stories will often pop into my head. I find Evensong to be an enjoyable and calming experience.

I don't know... Calling oneself a Christian is saying that God is a (n important) part of your life. To me the phrase cultural Christianity is a way of saying that the practices and rhythms of Christianity matter to you...?*

I went carol singing with the Guides before Christmas. I was sad to note that none of them knew any carols beyond Silent Night and one or two others. I'm sure they knew no hymns at all. The rush towards secularism is throwing away a wonderful musical, artistic and architectural heritage.

What would you call it then Enthusiasm?

We have religious talks with my daughter. She's 6 but they already have religion at school (she's attending a Catholic school, not because of the religion but because it's an excellent school with a relaxed attitude towards other or no religions - they were pretty cool about the fact that she's not baptized and I told them she won't be until she's old enough to decide for herself). I keep telling her that by being a part of Western civilization it's Christianity that's the closest religion and it's a part of our cultural heritage. I would never describe myself as a cultural Christian just because I decorate a Christmas tree or hide chocolate eggs in the garden and I'd have a problem with anyone trying to insinuate that. Our cultures have plenty of different influences and traditions and Christianity just happens to be one of the last ones, followed by an open secularism which is the environment she's growing up at the moment as we don't go to church, have no intention of doing that and had a civil marriage ceremony, with none of us even considering a church ceremony. I only know who the priest in our parish was (or used to be) because he comes from Nigeria and likes singing songs during his masses, which used to infuriate one of our elderly neighbours while her other neighbour always loved it.

rorty - YYYY I so agree - does labelling endlessly achieve anything at all when each label defines only part of a complex entity that is a human being.

I just call myself an atheist

Most people still celebrate Christmas and Easter both celebrated long before Christianity and as for following a Christian moral code I don't believe this has anything with what's in the bible I believe the majority of people are essential good and want to be good to others you don't need religious doctorine

As for hymns/carols they are just a song to me. I love going to the nativity but have also enjoyed Diwali/Muslim and Buddhist festivals

Secular society does not rid society of these it just separates politics and education from religion which I am all for

lorelei9 Yes, I meant they would be classed as Hindu and class themsleves as Hindu but don't necessarily believe all or any aspects.

I heard it for the first time a couple of days ago on mn. As an actual real Christian I'm not that keen on it in a very mild, turn the other cheek way, you understand

That really made me laugh.

But you see, I don't think that it's a new thing (maybe a newish term) or a choice or a movement.

It's more of a fact isn't it? A background thing?

You (or I or anyone) could abandon every single scrap of belief or actual religious practise we ever had, but the scripture, hymns, habits would always stay with you. You can't escape it.

Those things are obviously more meaningful to some non-believers than others, so those people are more likely to call themselves "culturally christian" maybe? The influence is there, whether you value it or not, though.

The same has happened on a societal level.

@loreli - never been accused of that before.

MitzyLeFrouf: "Dara O Briain describes himself as a Catholic Atheist and 'Cultural Catholic' is a term you hear a lot in Ireland. Clearly the UK is different!"

In Ireland, Unionist vs Republican (and their variances) tend to be split very much down Catholic / Protestant lines and the terms were (and are to an extent) virtually synonymous.

I feel a bit like that Rhoda.

I would never dream of telling anyone what their religious beliefs should be, so it's really just a pang of regret at the common culture being forgotten. I feel a bit like that about the folk tradition too.

In Ireland, Unionist vs Republican (and their variances) tend to be split very much down Catholic / Protestant lines

Actually that applies to Northern Ireland. Not a huge number of Unionists in the republic.

I'm a cultural Christian and also a catholic atheist. These terms make perfect sense to me although I haven't heard them used that much. I usually tick atheist on the what religion are you box. I like Christian values and I absolutely love hymns. I don't really believe though, sadly.

Yes, GooseberryRoolz - used to love country dancing at school. Ah, a good strip the willow as the teacher thumped away on the piano. Now country dancing is seen as some sort of niche activity akin to Morris dancing, not something that all children do as a matter of course on a Tuesday afternoon.

[sobs at loss of good bits of culture]

Element – how “all” and “any” could be applicable here is confusing to me.
If someone did believe all the aspects of Hinduism, they’d be a Hindu.
Someone who believed most of it would be a Hindu.

I can’t imagine why someone who believed in nothing from a particular religion would call themselves of that relgion.

Someone who believed none of it but didn’t eat beef because their parents raised them not to, doesn’t fall into any category really.

But it’s made me think perhaps that’s what it is – people who adopt certain practices for no reason at all other than “mum did it”.

And I guess those are the people who say “you are a Jain, because your mum is one” and get very upset when I say I’m not.

Never heard of it before your other thread.

Bit of a silly label. Either you believe, ergo you're a Christian, or you don't, in which case you're not.

Or is it that you don't believe, but you feel you're a Christian? And will you be needing to share loos with anyone in particular?

I haven't had another thread Stratter

Ah sorry, I read the term on another thread and assumed it was yours. Apologies

Probably the same thread I was reading.

Re. the loos; the irony of that was something that struck it me (I've been quite trans-sceptical elsewhere on MN so will probably get it in both sides of the neck now); That people generally seem okay with the idea of gender change by declaration (Maria Miller definition - no medical treatment at all), they just nod along about that, but someone mentions in passing that they are a self-defined 'cultural christian' and there are howls of mockery and apparent confusion.

I just found that very strange.

Even though I'd never heard that particular term before I realised what it is immediately. It's very obvious, just like someone from Israel is likely to be of Jewish background even if they are not religious, or someone from Amritsar is likely to be of Sikh stock even if they are not practising. I think people underestimate the extent to which Christianity has shaped the culture and calendar of Europe.

People who claim they can't possibly imagine what it means are being disingenuous.

Christianity has shaped the history and culture of Europe, and I am a white European/Brit. My grandad was a church deacon, my aunt taught in Sunday school etc. Despite not being christened, baptised, confirmed, married in church and actually being an atheist now, I'd say my background was Christian. It's certainly not anything else, and it doesn't mean that I am not free to not be religious if I don't want to. I'm not.

Well, actually it was thick old me who asked the question on the hot x bun thread. I asked because it wasn't immediately obvious to me, so I fired off a quick question. Is that OK with you, OP?

Jesus.

Do and think whatever you like Dame . It wasn't a specific post on that thread that made me wonder and I don't remember yours. More the weight of people saying 'that's not a thing' and/or getting bolshy across a number of threads for months and months

I'd hardly bother scratching my head or starting a thread because one person hadn't heard of single concept on one MN thread, would I? I'd be tsrating threads all the time, many of them about myself

Are cultural Catholic or cultural Anglican better terms? I know a lot of both of them.

Well they're valid terms.

The things is Bertrand there are also cultural Quakers and cultural Baptists and Cultural Methodists. An umbrella term makes sense.

Then there are people who went to a CofE school, but their gran took them to non-conformist sevices sometimes but their dad had some Catholic leanings. The products of mixed marriages and church-shoppers etc.

I can't seen a reason to insist on pinning a self-declared cultural Christian down to a specific denomination.

Surely if you take that argument one step further, I have friends and relatives by marriage who are Buddhists, Muslim and Sikh as well as having had a mainly non-religious upbringing with a little bit of Quaker and Non-Conformist Chapel thrown in. What does that say about my cultural heritage?

I love history, belong to the National Trust, documentaries about early Kings and Queens. That doesn't make me a cultural monarchist or culturally imbued in the acceptance of a ruling class and inheritated wealth.

Surely if you take that argument one step further, I have friends and relatives by marriage who are Buddhists, Muslim and Sikh as well as having had a mainly non-religious upbringing with a little bit of Quaker and Non-Conformist Chapel thrown in. What does that say about my cultural heritage?

Whatever you want it to, I think