to think that Cultural Christianity is not a baffling concept?

[GooseberryRoolz]

I keep reading and hearing apparent bafflement about this.

It's NOT baffling is it?

Basically I use it to mean "I sat through two services a week at school plus more for feast days, plus hymns in every assembly. I choked on the bloody incense, and scraped through my compulsory O Level RE. I've put my sodding hours in. And if anyone thinks they're going to stop me doing an Easter egg hunt, crying at the school Nativity play or peeling the Christmas spuds while listening to Carols from Kings, then they have another think coming. I've got just as much of a claim to those traditions as I have to go to watch the Ring Cycle even though I'm not an Odinist."

Returning to the idea that the UK is itself a Christian culture. One of the main explanations for this I hear (and proposed on this thread) is that our law is Christian. No-one ever seems to challenge this. But I don't think our law is.

Law and governance are directly linked. We are in a period of very un-Christian law and governance. Democracy itself is highly un-Christian - the Christian way is (like the majority of societies throughout history) - to have a god-appointed ruler who sets the law. In the smaller sense, even our families on the whole are unChristian - the Christian was that man is head of woman and the household.

Our laws are not particularly Christian. If we take the 10 commandments as being God's laws - then the few that are included in our system are also included in pretty much every other system, and most of the commandments have no connection to the law anyway. It's not illegal to commit adultory, disobey your parents, envy other people etc.

So how is our law Christian?

hereiamagain - because Christianity likes to thank itself for doing good whilst ignoring the evil done in its name.

Know the quote about arguing with a religiosist is like chess with a pigeon?

Still not sure as to the difference between 'culturally Christian' and 'culturally [other religion]'.

I would call myself a cultural Christian (or perhaps even a cultural Anglican if that isn't too twattish!), but not just because I sang hymns as a kid, celebrate Christmas or live in a 'Christian country'. Rather I would use the label to express the fact that, for all that I don't believe in God, Christianity still subtly shapes the way I interact with and experience the world. I know the Bible very well, and verses / stories will often pop into my head. I find Evensongto be an enjoyable and calming experience.

I don't know... Calling oneself a Christian is saying that God is a (n important) part of your life. To me the phrase cultural Christianity is a way of saying that the practices and rhythms of Christianity matter to you...?

Actually I know a cultural Hindy. He doesn't believe or practise his religion, but also doesn't eat beef because that's how his Hindu parents brought him up.

"Everyone has the "right" to consider themselves however they'd like."

Well, no, I don't agree with that. Having never been to Sri Lanka (as an example) and having no connection with Sri Lanka, I can't call myself Sri Lankan.

Are cultural Catholic or cultural Anglican better terms? I know a lot of both of them.

Herecomethepotatoes to Shadows "Please don't attempt to sound cleverer than you are. It's unbecoming."

Well you're a charmer aren't you. Couldn't Shadows have made -gasp - an honest mistake?

Gwen, many people connect me directly to a country I've never been, know nothing of etc. It's probably part of why this endless classification pisses me off.

When this thread began, I thought Vintage was being a teeny bit harsh. Now I see why. OP clearly intends to hold fast to her superior knowledge.

"Are cultural Catholic or cultural Anglican better terms?"

I don't see why they'd be better. Plenty of people have no particular affiliation to any denomination, but are still cultural Christians.

I don't think it necessarily matters if we can't find a standard definition of a cultural Christian. After all, there's a very wide range of different Christians so why not accept that's also the case with cultural Christians?

I've never heard the phrase before. My guess as to what it might mean was the same as many peoples, but having read the relevant Wikipedia article, many of the people who are saying what they think it means are wrong. The Wikipedia definition says you must identify as a cultural christian to be one. I was brought up in a Christian culture, but I am an atheist, and would want to punch anyone who called me any kind of Christian. The term does not mean someone brought up in a Christian culture, because it does not include any person who rejects the label, even if in every other possible respect they are culturally identical to those who accept it.

Many posters think have a christian cultural heritage is all it means. That is wrong, therefore to answer the OP's question, no the meaning isn't obvious. (Or alternatively, the Wikipedia definition is wrong.)

Are cultural Catholic or cultural Anglican better terms? I know a lot of both of them.

I think you may be one to something there BertrandRussell. I don't think many cultural Christians would associate themselves with my brand of Christianity, which is neither Catholic nor Anglican.

I thought it meant Christian cultural heritage - which having 1000 years of Christianity in this country would mean large number of people raised here.

But I've googled and Theoretician right the links that come up are cultural Christian vs biblical Christian for first few pages.

Cultural Christians seem to be from these links Christians raised in the faith who focus on bits of Christianity they like like Jesus and forgiveness and not things like going to hell or spreading the word. Seems more like a term more evangelical and militant groups are labelling other Christian groups they dislike as.

They seem quiet dismissive of Richard Dawkins use of the term which he applies more along Christian cultural heritage lines.

So while I though I knew what it meant - and in the context OP seems to be using it it does mean Christian cultural heritage it's just isn't as clear cut as I initially thought.

Sorry realised that not clear - Theoretician right the definition isn't as obvious as it first looks.

GooseberryRoolz Just for the record, I took your tone to be pleasantly enquiring, with a touch of humour deployed to elicit friendly responses.

I also thought the question was interesting.

AIBU is a funny old place ...

I don't think the Ten Commandments are particularly Christian. They are Jewish. All Christ wanted us to do was to love him, and love our neighbour as ourself. Basically just be decent and tolerant and nice.

I think on the whole Britain is pretty decent and tolerant and nice compared to most places.

Hang on!
Easter is based on a pre-Christian pagan festival.
Christmas has hijacked Yule - another pre-Christian pagan festival.
The vernal equinox was another pre-Christian pagan festival hijacked to become the Annunciation.
Et cetera.

So surely we are cultural pagans?

Still doesn't know exactly what a cultural Christian is

for those who see all civilization, law etc. starting with Christianity (or Judaism), I'd suggest to read up a bit.
The Code of Hammurabi provides for a very interesting lecture into the ancient law-making (considering it's probably not one of the oldest books of law only the oldest known to us)

Not sure why the OP's getting such hard time...

But for the record, there's loads of "cultural Hindus" and "cultural Musims" etc. (The Jewish thing is something else entirely - I don't know enough about it to comment.) In India, for example, loads of people are technically Hindu, but do they really believe there is a monkey headed god floating around up there somewhere? Same with Islam - when I lived in Malaysia I had friends who would troop off to the mosque every Friday then come back and drink and party - did they really, truly believe?

I was brought up in a Christian family, and went to church with people who really literally believed in Jesus and so on. Troubles or decisions in their life were accompanied by much prayer and studying of the Bible. I also knew people who went to church and things but didn't really, truly believe it was all literally true (I would think that various politicians claiming to be Christian would fall into this catergory - I mean, IDS or Cameron can't possibly really think they will meet their maker one day - can they? If so, how do they sleep at night?!). I assume when more people were churchgoers in our parent's and grandparent's generations there was more of this kind of "cultural christianity".

I sometimes think that sort of vague Christianity would be rather nice; if we weren't exposed to any other religions, in order to be vaguely reflective/nod to whatever is 'out there'/seek comfort through ritual we could go to church etc... whereas because we know about different religions there seems to be more of a need to really believe or make your mind up about which is true - going to church every week is quite a bold statement to make, nowadays... maybe that's just me though.

Perhaps I am using a completely different definition though...

Never heard of the term until a few weeks ago

I get what it means and guess it applies to me even though I am an atheist and would not use the term myself

It's just one of those sayings that some use and others think are pompous which it is

Dara O Briain describes himself as a Catholic Atheist and 'Cultural Catholic' is a term you hear a lot in Ireland. Clearly the UK is different!

Maybe because religion has a much bigger influence on life or is more intertwined with life in Ireland than it is in general in England that these sort of terms need to be used

Or if you are from a catholic background

Element "In India, for example, loads of people are technically Hindu, but do they really believe there is a monkey headed god floating around up there somewhere"

How are they "technically" Hindu? Do you mean they don't necessarily believe in all aspects, or something else?

I don't understand why everyone has to be labelled these days. Why can't we just be individual human beings with our own quirks, foibles, interests and beliefs?

Never heard the term before and apparently I am one.