to think that Cultural Christianity is not a baffling concept?

[GooseberryRoolz]

I keep reading and hearing apparent bafflement about this.

It's NOT baffling is it?

"None of those things made us 'cultural Christians' though, just aetheists who joined in with what everyone else was doing."

That doesn't make sense to me. If you joined in then you were also part of that culture.

But even believing, devout Christians must also be culturally Christian (???)

Gooseberry, I'm going to bed.

I am rather hoping you'll enlighten those silly billies among us who don't understand this "obvious" concept while I'm asleep

lorelei9 - you said they were agnostic, which to me means there is an element of doubt both ways. I am agnostic, which to me means that Jesus may have been the son of God or may not have been.

(That was an afterthought to my last post, not a reply to anyone in particular )

lore

Maybe it isn't obvious as I assumed.

It seems obvious to some people, however, so at least I got an answer to my "Is it just me or...?" feeling

I'm still interested in the whole subject.

I think we're actually in agreement, lorelai. I think . I can't claim to know what the OP means by cultural Christian, hell I barely know what I mean on here sometimes.

For example my Mum (would identify as Catholic), my Dad (agnostic), sister (atheist), other sister (agnostic), DP (atheist), Nan (Catholic) and I (agnostic) all pretty much partake in the same practices when it comes to Christmas, Easter etc. We all attend mass equally frequently (weddings, funerals, and family memorial masses). So which of us are cultural Catholics, and which aren't? My sisters would be fine with being labelled cultural Catholics, my DP would resent being labelled as being connected to any religion.

I think, if there is a need to describe how I live my life, 'cultural Catholic' would probably pretty aptly describe it. I have no need for such a label, but understand that the OP and others might like it to describe their participation in certain religious traditions, despite not being religious.

Gwen, never heard that re agnosticism before, certainly never heard of a connection with Jesus

they are agnostic in the sense of not knowing whether or not there is a god. I think there is also a school of thought that says they don't know and aren't bothered.

but to me, being a cultural Christian may well mean taking part in the church things but not believing in it.

I will remain unenlightened till Gooseberry shares this knowledge that will make it as identifiable as KFC

now I really must go to bed, no doubt this thread will liven up my Monday morning!

Shadows " my DP would resent being labelled as being connected to any religion."

er, but he goes to Mass?! Um.....

"they are agnostic in the sense of not knowing whether or not there is a god."

How does that disprove what I said? They don't know whether there is a god, which means they think there might be.

Is that kinda the gist, Gooseberry? I find it interesting too. How the religion we are raised in keeps having an influence on our lives, even if we stop practicing said religion. I actually just had a really interesting conversation with my Mum about this today.

Wait, Gooseberry, are you my Mum?

Ive been to a mosque and joined in with their prayers doesn't mean I joined their culture

There a many influences in life, some really rather subliminal. I don't believe in religion per say, I think it was a way to control vast populations before anything else was formed. I do however believe in being kind and true to yourself.

However, as I grow older and know I have more years behind me than in front, of course I would love to believe in something that will make my demise easier for me to come to terms with.

Makes sense to me shadows

(But I think it's up to you to define anyway )

He goes to weddings, funerals, and remembrance masses for my Granda, lorelai because my Granda adored him, they were very close, and DP wants to commemorate him. He doesn't take communion or in anyway disrespect the church. Why is that a problem? He goes to mass and sits quietly while the religious relatives pray for Granda, and he thinks about him.

I kind of feel like you're trying to pick a fight. I shouldn't have to defend how my DP pays his respects to my beloved Granda who he knew and became very close with over 15 years.

Prepare to debate the Trinity Gwen It's moving that way.

Mama! You're here! I will say, I've seen quite a few of your posts recently Gooseberry, and find myself nodding along in agreement with many of them.

Just wink if you're an Irish woman her sixties with blonde hair and a penchant for skinny jeans

Try as I might on this thread, which is rather interesting due to others input, I still have visions of you speaking through your nostrils to people and dearly want to kick you (metaphorically of course) off of your soap box

Gosh, I'm glad I came back. Shadows, I am not trying to pick a fight, I thought you meant your DP was an atheist going to regular ordinary services (sorry don't know terminology). Weddings and funerals and remembrance services are not what I understood by Mass. We all go to those. So if your DP is cross about being considered a Catholic for that reason I understand him totally.

I wasn't criticising him in the first place, I was just confused.

Gwen, I thought you were saying something about agnostics and Jesus specifically, sorry.

I suppose to me there's a big difference between a doubter and agnostic, I'd see a doubter as someone who has a faith but is a bit wobbly and agnostic as genuinely don't know.

Maybe your mum is my future self Shadow

I am culturally pre - Christian pagan as the times of the year that I celebrate are midwinter and spring. Christians call these Christmas and Easter.

I understand what you mean OP and was talking about this only a few days ago with DH. And agree with you up to a certain point.

Yes I was born in a country that is predominately 'Christian' within a country with a Head of State who is also Head of the C of E and was brought up to celebrate festivals that have been appropriated by the Christian church. I had no option but to attend a CofE primary school so received some RE that indoctrinated me into some of the teachings of the church. I am fond of our churches because of their history and they are nice venues for weddings and funerals. But my parents were not church goers and I didn't Christen DS so being a Christian was not part of my home environment at all.

The term 'Christian' is different to being 'Jewish' and I don't think a non-practising Hindu, Buddhist or Muslim would consider themselves linked culturally with those religions but maybe linked culturally to a country, and it's traditions, from where their parents or grand parents originated.

Also there are many beliefs that existed as I was growing up (born in the late 1950s) that were acceptable and part of the culture at the time ; (homophobia, racism and sexism to name just three). I certainly would not identify with any of these beliefs as part of my own culture heritage. In the same way I cannot identify culturally as a Christian because I do not believe that Jesus was the son of God and the Saviour of humanity.

Its obvious isn't it. We live in a culture based on Christianity. The secular holidays come from Christian festivals. The rule of law came from interpretations of the church.the concept of the importance of the individual life came from Christianity. Well, maybe not came, but spread by Christianity and refined over the centuries. Cf countries which are culturally Islamic, or China. They have a different set of values.
None of this stuff matters until we rub up against another culture. Then we go mad with definitions.

"I don't think a non-practising Hindu, Buddhist or Muslim would consider themselves linked culturally with those religions"

Why not? I think they might do if brought up in a country where that religion is the main religion.

"In the same way I cannot identify culturally as a Christian because I do not believe that Jesus was the son of God and the Saviour of humanity."

You're missing the cultural aspect there. Cultural Christian doesn't mean a practising or believing Christian. It means someone who is part of a culture that is influenced by Christianity, which you are.

Sorry, lorelai. I guess the problem with online fora is that the tone of a conversation, and facial expressions, are lost, so messages are easily misinterpreted.

So yes when I said mass, I meant it as an all encompassing term (as it is used in my family) describing all religious ceremonies. Whereas you interpret mass as the standard Sunday ceremony.

Gooseberry, if you're an amazing woman with the ability to irritate the shite out of me whilst still inspiring me, then yes, Momma Shadows is definitely your future self. Also if you like vodka, lime and sodas, and sparkly socks