aibu - supposedly left wing parents in London

[jimmyjoejamtoe]

Who run screaming to the home counties "because of schools?"

You know the type, having moved FROM the home counties after uni to London, then spend the rest of their twenties in London feeling smug at how "wonderfully diverse, edgy" everything is in London with a sneer at "middle England" but then...

..they go private...
...move to somewhere bland and safe...
when kids their kids arrive.

Hang on, you've changed your tune.

Aibu to feel a little peeved at these metropolitan types as they empty smugly from my area/go private?

The interesting thing is that as the London types move out to more affordable housing, this then becomes less affordable to those who grew up in those places. The circle widens. We are an hour from central London, but local people are moving out whilst others move in. What happened in my zone 3 area 10 years ago is happening in this zone 6 area now.

Yabu - because the decision to stay in London or move out is so much more complicated than you imply.

SOME London state schools are fantastic - London Oratory (Blair, Clegg), Grey Coats (Cameron). Most people - including those whose DC are now in private schools - would jump at a place in these schools. But, a small, but significant number, are dire - and funnily enough there are no politicians children in those!

But unless you are very rich you cannot afford to buy or rent a family home (three bedrooms) in Zones 1- 3 and unless you are very poor, you will not get a LA/Housing Association property. So once you have more than two DC you HAVE to move out whether you like it or not.

MerryMarigold - that is what's happening in my area. It used to be a pretty bog standard, but friendly small town not far from London. Then the primaries started to get outstanding ratings and it became the place for ex-Londoners. We can barely afford to rent any more so will have to move away soon and be further from family. It sucks. I miss the old community spirit.

I don't think it's the schools causing people to move out. It will be a factor but not the deciding one. You say in the op that lots are going private, well let's face it there and abundance of excellent private schools in London if that's the case why move? The real reason will be that living in a flat near fab transport links, restaurants etc is awesome till you have kids. Then strangely more spacexpensive becomes important. As space comes at a premium in London people will.move as far out as they can afford.

Interesting thread.

Of course I know there are a multitude of reasons for moving out, all valid and sensible.

But I have had dozens of wealthy people with family homes say in as many words they wouldn't raise a dog in the area because of the schools, the general youth in the area - and, importantly, these are the same people who used to come out, before pfb, with stuff like how much they loved how edgy and diverse the area was and how they got a thrill out of the fact it wasn't boring like the town and people they had originally come from. Its that smugness followed by abandoning the community that you loved that somehow grates.

"shudder at raising kids in SW16", what does that say about the people who chose (or not chose) to live there?

Anyway, was you say, people are free to do what they wish, of course.

I just avoid talking about schools now with MC parents

She didn't say 'shudder at raising kids in SW16' - read your own thread, OP.

She said she shuddered at what her standard of living would have been. Presumably because she'd have been paying every penny she earned to live in a shoebox, whereas - outside of London - the same money gets a life, rather than an existence.

Re Sw16, I think actually it'd be a great place to raise kids. Esp after the age of about 13 when London can really start to open up to them. I moved to London when I was sixteen from a town and it was like being transported to a new world.

TBF, the other notable thing about SW16 ATM (like many parts of London) is that it is a veritable building site. That gets wearing too; dust and cranes everywhere. Not much fun when your outside space is handkerchief sized in the first place.

I think that's how these decisions get made in the end; Several factors hum away in the background and then a life event or life stage tips the balance.

I am sure I am not the only person to wonder who you are, with your dozens (that's at least 24) of wealthy left -wing friends weeping on your shoulder about schools in London.

You must attend some really niche baby group.

I think lots would prefer to stay in London, but if you want a garden, kids to have more than a cramped room to share, space to park the car etc. You have to move out. Now that even zone 6 areas are highly expensive for family homes lots of people decide to live on a commuter line rather than put up with 40 min tube journeys and get more for their money.

Not me though, quite happy with my 6 bed pile in Zone 2 over looking the park, 5 mins from a tube, but then when I moved here it really was "edgy".

But I have had dozens of wealthy people with family homes say in as many words they wouldn't raise a dog in the area because of the schools, the general youth in the area - and, importantly, these are the same people who used to come out, before pfb, with stuff like how much they loved how edgy and diverse the area was and how they got a thrill out of the fact it wasn't boring like the town and people they had originally come from. Its that smugness followed by abandoning the community that you loved that somehow grates.

People have to think about their dc's needs and that doesn't always coincide with their own likes/wants. They might well be terribly sad about leaving. And you kind of have to try and put a positive spin on it for your dc to adapt.

"Wouldn't raise a dog"

Sound like twats tbh, wouldn't give them the time of day.

But I have had dozens of wealthy people with family homes say in as many words they wouldn't raise a dog in the area because of the schools, the general youth in the area

see, I did know people like this

they fucked off not long after reception

I wouldn't call them lefties, though they'd probably come at you with a rolled up Country Living

there's still plenty of lefties here at any rate

I think bibbityblob may have it. If your thread is based on what some people have said to you (rather than a tired cliche with no basis in present-day lived-reality), I suspect that your friends are putting a positive spin on what is probably a decision they feel quite mixed about.

This thread suggests to me that the reason most people move out these days is that London has become unaffordable - not schools, or becoming a reactionary.

I'm sorry if I sound like a grumpy grouch. I'm afraid your OP hit a sore spot: I think cliches like the school thing hide a really worrying reality. That reality is that London is becoming worryingly unaffordable. I really do think that that is a huge issue. I worry that cliches like 'lefties (why lefties????) move into vibrant areas and then move out for schools because they don't want 'vibrant' around their kids' hides some really worrying economic facts behind a facade of having a go at people with left-wing politics and at multiculturalism.

There are a whole load of other things I don't like about the cliche too. But the fact that it hides a quite different economic realiity will do for now.

Just my opinion.

Yes I think the economic reality is really sad too. "Social cleansing" is taking place without a doubt. Just looking at our area, the only people who can afford the houses now are well off enough to buy in the first place and often then extend as well .

And it will undoubtedly slowly change the whole character of the place, as well as simply meaning that many people cannot now afford to live where they come from, or where their job is . What kind of town/country functions only for the wealthy? I think the kind of capitalism are governments and/or the global system implement needs re-thinking.

our governments

This isn't unique to London. People in other cities across the uk move to be closer to better schools etc. In your 20s and child free, good local bars and restaurants are a priority. In your 30s with DC, schools and parks become more important.

Funnily enough in the 1970s my v left wing grandfather helped us to move out of Manchester to Bury so that I could escape the diverse area and go to a MC Grammar school. Nothing changes.

I moved out of London once DC2 was on the way, because we wanted a house instead of a flat. I still miss living there but we definitely have a better quality of life in the suburbs. Sure, I checked out the schools before we chose a place to live, but there was no chance we would ever have paid for private school.

The only people I know who have chosen private school for their children are a) not in London and b) as Tory as they come, so I don't really recognise your scenario.

I'm still not sure what you experienced more of in London...

The premise of your argument is flawed though as there is an assumption that the 'edgy' and 'diverse' still exists in London. I am wondering how a place can be described as 'diverse' when the 'young' and 'poor' are priced out of the housing market. For example, last year only 6 % of new graduates that moved to London came from the poorest 5th of local authorities, 42% of new graduates moving to London came from the wealthiest 5th of local authorities. The stats don't support the argument, that London is this 'diverse' and 'edgy' place to move away from. It is a place that is going to be full of the elderly and the rich and I'm sorry if this offends but since when have these categories of people, typically been associated with being 'edgy'?

The thing is, your love for your kids just trumps all other considerations, in my experience. So whatever your political views, you will do whatever you consider best for your child, in a heartbeat. And not even feel bad about it. This is life. I am unashamed, and unrepentant.

And the irony is, in 20 years those self same kids will be hot footing it back to London warbling on about the boring small towns they came from and how diverse and edgy (and 'authentic', no doubt.
Not much changes

Yanbu OP
I have watched many friends do this!
And no,it wasn't because they required a bigger house/garden or driveway.

I certainly don't know any lefties who move out of London to send their kids private..

I do know an awful lot of privately educated, middle class people who use London as a play ground in their 20s and then bugger off back home.

Are these possibly the people your talking about?