To request no children at my Mum's funeral?

[missmalteaser]

I know I am deep in grief and anger stages right now so maybe not thinking straight.

I know that my mum would not have wanted her two Great grandchildren to be upset (they are 3 and 6)/attend her funeral, so I politely asked the mum of the children (nephew's partner) if she could veto the service and bring them straight to the wake as these are the wishes of my Dad and I truly believe the wishes of my late mum. She is still insisting on bringing them and has also caused a rift between us and nephew at a time when we should be pulling together. Her excuse is lack of childcare, although her mum and dad are heavily involved with the children.

As an aside, selfishly I don't want toddlers interrupting my final goodbye to my Mum.

Please help.

'A funeral is a gathering of every person who loved the person who has died no matter how old they happen to be when that person dies. It marks a relationship that the children were very much part of and is very personal to them.
It is an individual time to reflect on that person, to be part of shared grief, to get comfort at a usually very distressing time and to be allowed a channel to start to heal and make sense of things in a way that is very important for many people.'

That is your opinion and entirely subjective. For some it is about religion and dedicating the soul to God and the mourners role in this is prayer. It is not about the mourners and about the person who has died and their soul.

I think a lot of it is to do with the mourners. They are the ones who are carrying on with their lives, and coping the best they can. And I include small children in that; it may not be relevant to them now but as they get older it will do.

But this one isn't about prayers for the soul, expatinscotland. OP says it is about the widower's and her own wishes on the one hand and the grandchild's (OP's nephew) and great grandchildren's on the other hand. So yes, everyone can go and say goodbye, everyone is grieving.

Fights like these are not uncommon after bereavement (we have a similar situation at the moment), everyone is just so lost in this situation and forgets none of this is bringing the deceased back, which is all everyone wants.

OP, neither you nor they have done anything unforgivable, even if it now feels like it. You are all hurting, take care of yourself and each other . They too are sad and might or might not respond to texts right now. They might feel that in their grief they have to deal with great-granny not wanting them there or you thinking the kids will kick off.

I personally would. It take young children to a funeral. My daughters were 6 and 7 when my dad died and we felt it would be unsettling for them to see me and the whole family so upset. The views of the closest relatives should be respected here so if you and your dad don't want children they should honour that and arrange for them to be looked after or one of them not go.

Sorry for your loss op. I wonder though by your use of the word toddlers if you are worrying unnecessarily, because at 3 and 6 they are far from toddlers. I'd be much more worried for the peace and quiet of the occasion if they were indeed 1 or 2. At their age they will be able to behave. I also think they should be allowed to say goodbye to their grandparent, especially the 6yo.

Ah sorry, I see it is great grandparent. Less about them, then, but even so I think you shouldn't worry re disruption aspect.

I seriously doubt the three year old is grieving. I seriously doubt the three year old has any real grip on the facts of the situation and there are much, much better ways for a parent to support a child in understanding the death of an elderly relative, they do not need to be in the formal church service the way older children and adults do. For the umpteenth time the death of a parent or sibling would be different.

Pretty much every post telling the OP she is unreasonable boils down to wanting a grieving daughter sorting out the funeral of her mum and supporting her dad through it to put both his and her feelings and needs aside and throw herself into loving understanding of the POV of relative much less affected who wants the occasion to be all about her and her children. Otherwise she'll sulk.

There is no way to make this anything less than appalling behaviour. I'm just gobsmacked at the number of people here who seriously think the OP should be nurturing the delicate feelings of this woman who is insistent this situation is all about her and her children when that branch of the family are not only not giving a fuck for the OPs or her father but are actively making this awful time so much harder because they're busy feeling wronged. Frankly the needs of the children are not the paramount issue here.

If anyone is creating a family breach it is not the OP and it is not her responsibility to fix it by enabling bloody awful, selfish and rude behaviour.

It didn't occur to me not to bring my children to my grandparents funerals. I would have been very upset if other family members tried to stop them coming. Ultimately I would have probably not brought them to avoid a scene but it would have been very upsetting.

I have always felt that children need to grieve every bit as much as adults and preventing them from doing that is more harmful than sparing them from any feelings they have about seeing adults upset. It is normal to be devastated when someone dies. Why hide it from children? Mine have been to grandparents and other close relatives' funerals and I would have been furious if anyone had stopped this. I just don't believe anyone's grief trumps anyone else's. It is convenient OP that you 'know' what your mother would have wanted and how that just supports what you want. You've admitted you are being selfish.

I'm really sorry for your loss and understand you are grieving but it would have been much kinder to have asked your nephew if they could just make sure the children were quiet and didn't cause any disturbance. At that age, the children will understand that (mine were that age when my mother died). I'm sure it would have caused much less family upheaval.

I'm sorry for your loss OP.

What a difficult situation. I wouldn't take a 3 year old to a funeral and can see why you would not want your nephew's 3 year old there but I wouldn't agree with excluding a 6 year old, if they wanted to go. Obviously none of us know how close the relationships were between all concerned.

I hope your nephew and his DP are able to come to some sort of compromise.

What is the normal relationship between the children's mother and the family? is she normally fully accepted, well integrated, thought well of, 'approved of'?

The reason i am asking is that, as I pointed out above, asking her not to bring the children when she has no childcare for them is basically telling her that SHE is not welcome at the funeral.

If she has a generally great and secure relationship with the wider family, then though her exclusion from the funeral may be somewhat hurtful, it need not store up further difficulties. However, if she already feels insecure / disliked / ostracised within the family, then the exclusion is going to be a much bigger issue for her (I know that all the focus in this thread has been about excluding the children - but since they need someone to look after them, you are also de facto telling the adult carer that she cannot attend either).

i was thinking about the parallel with my own family-in-law, with whom I have a difficult relationship (DH was called home and told to break off our engagement, FIL has never really spoken to 15 year old DS, his grandson, because DS looks like me etc). However, I had a very good, close relationship with DH's lovely grandmother - a down-to-earth Yorkshirewoman with a kind word for everyone.

It would be entirely possible, and within character, that DH's uncles might have sent a text or e-mail or letter, or message via FIL, to tell me that my children - and therefore I - could not attend DH's grandmother's funeral. However 'innocently meant', and however much 'oh you can come to the wake afterwards' was mentioned, I would have found that very, very difficult - a) because despite the difficulties I have with the intervening generation, I was very close to her but principally b) because it would be yet another symbol of the whole family's rejection and dislike of me and by extension my children. It would have made me very angry, and i might well have said, in the heat of the moment, that I was disgusted by the family's behaviour and the fact that they were preventing me from saying goodbye to pretty much the only member of the family I had a strong connection with.

I am not saying that this is what has happened within the OP's family - but there could be a variety of reasons, not all 'visible on the surface', why the children's mother has reacted strongly to her own and her children's exclusion from the funeral.

Sorry for your loss, OP

I haven't read the whole thread so forgive me if this has been suggested,
Depending where the wake is, is there an in-law/ neighbour/ family friend who could be at the wake venue with the children while the funeral takes place and support them to do the very important job of putting the cakes and sandwiches out, arrange the photos etc and have the teapots ready to welcome everyone? This would also mean that you and your father aren't rushing back.

There may be someone who secretly finds funerals difficult but who would love to honour your mother and support the family by doing this.

I think it depend s on the child. If they are old enough to engage with the service then fine. If they str golong to be fidgeting climbing on the pews playing with toys or colouring in, then the y shouldn't. Come unless immediate family.I would find it really disrespectful to be saying good bye to my parent whilst a 3 yr old was playingvwith his tractors. A funeral is not an outing or an ' experience'

When I lost my mom, there was a wake at home. Neighbour's children came. Made noise, annoying noise, I was angry, very angry. I felt like my emotions were disturbed, I wanted a peaceful send off for my mom and feel these children ruined it.
I feel your pain OP

May - but these are immediate family - as i read it, they are the deceased's only great grandchildren. The OP has made no comment whatever on their general demeanour or behaviour, nor on whether before excluding them from the funeral, any discussion about keeping them quiet etc was had.

For me, the important part is that as well as the children, their mother is also being excluded from the funeral, as it is expected that she will take care of them elsewhere.

It is also clear from the thread that some posters believe that there is a heirarchy of grief - that those who are 'closest in the family tree' take precedence over others in deciding who can attend and who cannot. Is this a general view? I mean, a distant relative, or non-relative, who lives close by, or has some special shared interest with the deceased, may in fact be more affected by the death than closer relatives who are in contact more seldom.

"the important part is that as well as the children, their mother is also being excluded from the funeral,"

Exactly!

OP, I know you are hurting badly at this time, but do not let this become your focus. You are seeing this as an issue you can control during a period when things feel out of control.

As someone who has buried both parents, I can honestly say that I couldn't even tell you the details of who or who was not at their funerals. I can't remember if people brought their children, I can't remember if those children made any noise. I remember the people who spoke, but that's about it. My focus was not on anyone else that day.

For now, the phrase 'don't sweat the small stuff' is incredibly apt. Let everything else wash over you and just focus on saying goodbye without worrying about what anyone else is doing.

rumble I don't think the OP has to show any delicacy with the woman just to understand why she doesn't have to agree not to come. Yes it might be more sporting of her to let it go but it's her right not to, too.

I was also stating that it's everyone's right to grieve and all who grieve have a right to say goodbye. I am sure it must be very hard for the OP though and I don't doubt how difficult it must be for her in these circumstances and of course her DF.

My dd was 3 and then 4 when my parents died.
There was no way she was going. I got a babysitter, she was far too young and I didn't want the day spent looking after her or expecting other mourners to.
She would have been so bored, such a big ask to expect them to be quiet when so young.
Ds1 and ds2 came as they were 14 and 16 at the time.

missmalteaser, firstly I am so sorry you have lost your mum

Your DM's immediate family take precedence in this situation.
I know you have been very careful in your messages so far but I think you need to tell the children's mother directly just how much upset this is causing. I would explain one last time that you are ALL following your DF's wishes in this matter and it would be appreciated if EVERY member of the family could respect his choice.
If she turns up with the DCs, she is very disrespectful and I wouldn't be able to get past that in future. I truly hope your DM gets the farewell she deserves.

I really don't understand the focus on the partner in this situation. From reading the OP's last post it sounds as if the nephew was told his family wasn't welcome at his grandmother's funeral at some sort of family get together and was very upset. His partner has subsequently supported him. I would totally do the same for my dh. His feelings are far more important to me than my ILs feelings. That's normal in families isn't it?

I've only been to two funerals since my children have been born, and they came to both of them. It was really important to me to have them there. At one funeral there was a lot of loud mourning (national tradition of letting your pain out publicly, plus the funeral was for a young person) and at the other virtually none (family tradition of keeping pain hidden). I think if anything the first made more sense to our children, but then the second funeral was very religious so that was more alien to them really (and as it turned out to me, and it's the religion I grew up in).

I don't to be honest think anyone is behaving badly here, everyone is just very upset, and no one is seeing eye to eye. Very sad and probably not very unusual.

Thank you rumbleinthejungle, expat and catzpyjamas amongst others for letting me know i'm not going crazy.

Posters suggesting the mother of the children is excluded from the funeral are not accurate. She lives with her mum and dad who regularly take care of the children and I find it difficult to believe that someone can not get childcare for 1 hour in a situation such as this.

I find it difficult to understand how I am taking away a three year olds 'right to grieve' for my mum. This is a ridiculous view in my opinion. I have suggested alternative ways such as the tree.

This thread is stressing me now so over and out. I think I naively assumed people would agree with me wholeheartedly and was perhaps blindly looking for comfort and reassurance here. My own fault as I know how AIBU works! Thanks for the well wishes and condolences - all gratefully received

I agree with you anyway, for what it's worth.

YANBU AT ALL.
IMO and very much IME of years of going to funerals, it isn't usual to take small dc to the funeral service. I've very rarely come across it in real life, only on MN. From here, I've learned that it's very common in most of Ireland, for example, so maybe it's regional, but where I live, it's not commonly done at all. However, people attending should adhere to the wishes of the immediate family - you and your Dad and what you believe your Mum would have said.
I don't have a lot of sympathy for people saying they have no-one to have the children either - as you say, in this case her parents do it all the time, but for most people, anyone would look after them for a short time while the service was on - it's just common decency.