To be worried about MILs plans

[have2nc]

MIL is 80 and lives alone. I think she suffers from depression, but her DC don't seem to feel able to discuss it with her. Her DD describes their family approach to things as 'sweep it under the carpet'. She is very isolated; won't try join groups or meet people. Gets very little exercise or fresh air. I learned recently that she uses her car now to drive one block from her house to get milk, because she gets out of breath walking that distance. She is overweight, but not massively I don't think. I never think of her in those terms but DH worries she is. I talk to DH about this but would never interfere with her DCs relationship with her.

Anyway, we live in a rural village and MIL lives in a city about 45 mins drive from us. I have a 1yr old and a 4 yr old - both born after I turned 40.

Last year I learned MIL was considering selling her city home (a ground floor property, no stairs) and buying a new build double storey home in a village maybe 5 mins from us. No one told me about this, including DH, until she was viewing plans and 'deciding '. Apparently she'd like to live near a field and not a street.

I panicked. I have a number of concerns. Many of them selfish which is why I'm not sure if IABU.

First, she's 80 and I think stairs are an issue. Even DH and she see this as temporary before she moves into her 'old age' type home where she'll get more support. Problem is, I think she's at that 'old age' age now, especially hearing she can't walk one block.

The re-sale value of the village house later won't translate into funds she can use to move back into the city later. I'm worried she'll be trapped here, next door to me.

Bus service to town is very infrequent and unreliable. I don't think she should be driving much longer. She's already hazardously slow on the road.

Nearest hospital is an hour away in a car, so 2 hour round trip. And she's 80.

And this is the selfish bit. I suspect she thinks she'll see my DCs more often. I am craving spare time. I want to re-train and start working again. I don't want to accommodate expected increase in regular visits when I'm struggling for time already and they are unavoidable when she'd be so close. I feel my freedom closing down already, and it feels bloody unfair. DH takes them to see her weekly at the moment.

DH works in town and all her family are there too. I don't want to be the point of call to check on her or give her lifts or any of the myriad things, just because I am near-by. And at her age and her health, I really expect that to happen pretty soon.

My gut feeling us her DD wants to move away, and is trying to pass care on (they are close and see each other all the time). I can't fill that gap. We're not close. FIL was toxic, and although he has died and she isn't toxic, it still affected our relationship because I kept my distance. I know she thinks I should have tolerated him regardless, and she is silently disapproving, and always always finds a way to bring me down. Whenever I'm with her I wait for the comment and almost feel relief that she's made it and hopefully it's out the way for the rest of the visit.

AIBU to want her DCs to dissuade her from this move. I feel ill about it. I feel it could really ruin my life. There. Selfish.

You need to make it very clear to your DH that you're not going to provide care.
Whose idea was the granny annexe?

I could have written your post, OP. The only difference is that both ILs moved to our town, they had a retirement flat with on-call assistance, and XH was very unhappy about it as he knew the burden on us would increase.

As you cannot stop her from moving there, I think you have to take the view that it won't be forever - she is 80 after all. It will be nice for your children to see as much of their grandmother as possible, as again, she won't be around forever. Set clear ground rules about visiting days and times, and how much you are prepared to do for her.

I think you have to try to force the family to discuss it, and if they won't then you have to tell them you're sorry but you can't help. It used to piss me off no end that XH and SIL would exclude me from discussions as I wasn't 'family' yet expected me to do my share of the caring based on the poor decisions they made. They need to be clear on what they can expect from you and that means talking about it.

Not sure how you can keep her out of the granny flat, though. This is something that they cannot just agree without your full co-operation, and you should be prepared to fight to keep it for your family. Sorry that's not much help. It's such a bummer being a late parent, especially if you were a late child yourself. Toddlers at one end, elderlies at the other, and you in the middle expected to be all things to all people. Again, all I can repeat is that it's not forever.

I suggest that you find a way to stop MIL driving if you think she has dementia, or even if she seems to be driving dangerously. DH could sit in the car with her while she drives to get an idea of exactly how slow she drives, reaction times etc. And if it really is bad he should take the keys off her and remove the car.

See if you can get a Dr's appointment to assess her, they will often do it under the guise of an overall heath check for reluctant patients. It may change the whole scenario in that MIL may not be deemed fit to live alone, and will need to live in sheltered housing.

I think I would be saying to DH I feel like I am being rail roaded into this and you do realise we/I may decide to move from our forever house to get away from your DM.
May even go as far as getting some new house details and leaving them around if I wanted to be really PA.

Oh dear.

My DGM died in her late eighties. She was extremely outgoing, had an excellent social circle and only gave up driving at 80 because she and my DM had made a"future-proof" agreement years before that this should be the case. She didn't want to when she turned 80, but she'd agreed to it. She didn't start to get out of breath or less physically mobile until the 2 years before her death, but even without all those factors, there is no way a move at 80 years old into a more rural community, away from her existing support system, in a two-storey house, would have been a good idea and no one in our family would have agreed to it. And she was a pretty strong-minded individual. Especially if the plan is that this is temporary, it's totally nuts, frankly.

Can you insist that your DH and his sister investigate retirement communities and take your MIL to see some? If you present the choice as a good move now that will hopefully prevent her needing to go into full residential care for a long time, versus moving near you with all associated expenses, and then straight into a care home when too infirm to cope, would that focus their minds? Impress very strongly on them that you will not ever be able to be her carer, either live-out or live-in.

I'm afraid that I think this is already a problem in your marriage, so it needs addressing, despite the fall-out. If my DH and SIL decided to exclude me from a discussion about what happened with my MIL and moving house, I would honestly be considering my position in the relationship. And I LIKE my MIL!

OP

Moving into a house like that at 80 is just madness - moving is super stressful for the elderly and the costs are high each time, so you don't want to do it twice in 5 years. There are some lovely complexes where you have a self contained flat, but can then buy in catering/cleaning/care as you need it and have access to communal facilities.

Don't get railroaded into caring if its not what you have agreed to. You working from home is still just as validly working as anyone elses work, and though yes, you might rush to help in an emergency, you can't be expected to be a taxi service

Yikes, I'd seriously consider getting a FT job and an au pair [to fill the granny flat] asap.

Moving into a new home at 80+ and then into older folks accommodation within 5-10 yrs sounds like a bonkers plan. All that stamp duty down the toilet.

Ouf. Difficult situation, and YADNBU. I think Bullshitbingo has it spot on.

If it looks like this is going ahead, can you have a meeting with DH and SIL, to really thrash out pragmatics. 'If MIL does fall / get locked out in the day, who is she going to call? It's going to be DH isn't it everyone, because we've all agreed that he is going to take in the extra burden, right? Yes? Agreed? Every time? Even though I'm closer? And if we as a family aren't happy with that, she's going to sheltered accom?' That kind of thing?

It's not being cruel to be realistic about who you are and what you can handle. Spell out to your DH that they need to explore other options, or he could be looking at being divorced or with a deeply unhappy spouse in a few years. If he cares less about your happiness than about his own inability to talk to his own mother and sister, then you have a big DH problem.

YY to this, from bingo. Your DH and SIL need to understand you do not and will not agree to this. It's OK to be "negative", it really is, otherwise things will get much worse not better if you can't all be honest about this.

I like SIL a great deal, but I know that if I appear to be pushing away her DM it'll raise old issues.

I'm afraid they probably do need to be raised, however. You have my utmost sympathy.

YANB remotely U or selfish, OP. It is very, very hard supporting an elderly parent, and this is not even your own mother but your MIL. I was in a similar position until recently. My DM (I use the D with a rich sense of irony) moved to be nearer me having assured me that she 'wouldn't be a burden', would move into sheltered accommodation when she could no longer be independent, etc etc. It turns out she told everyone else in the family that I had begged her to move closer, that I was only too happy to support her as much as she needed for as long as she needed, that I wouldn't hear of her going into sheltered accommodation, etc etc. An extreme state of affairs, but, as in your situation, one that the rest of the family was only too happy to encourage as it took the onus off them to help at all. Like your ILs, my siblings don't communicate well. Like you, I have a young family and I'm self-employed. You are spot on that no one understands, and no one wants to understand, that being self-employed is not the same as being available to deal with any and every request, demand and pseudo-emergency that arises, and unless you are very heartless you will end up being sucked into providing a level of service that makes you want to scream inside.

I think it is vital that this move does not take place. I hesitate to tell you what to do, but in your shoes I would be speaking openly and frankly to every family member about what you cannot and will not do, including MIL herself. I would also be candid about the respects in which this is not a good plan for MIL herself (mobility, transport, etc) because it sounds like no one else in this picture is being very sensible. Getting her GP onside with a general health check (with a heads-up about DVLA issues) is a good idea, as if she loses her licence it may sharpen her focus re transport links, and perhaps focus everyone else's as to her declining state generally. If you can come up with alternative plans and alternative accommodation ideas, it may make it easier for the others to let go of this one particularly insane plan. This is a very difficult situation and I really feel for you.

Another thing - your DH needs help. He's clearly suffering the FOG, and is therefore a rabbit in the headlights when it comes to this decision. With your FIL having been so very toxic, he's likely to be living with a legacy of panic and anxiety when it comes to any family confrontation, because in the past the stakes have been very, very high. Getting him to a place where he feels safe being more firm is part of the solution. DH and I went through this in quite an extreme way (very very controlling father), and literally in 10 sessions of counselling he was able to deal with it so very much better than ever before. The same skills have helped him massively in his career too, which has taken off like a rocket since he started to feel more comfortable being more assertive.

Sometimes old people have ideas that they think are the best thing for them. It doesn't follow that they are right.

I remember my own stepGM was exhibiting worrying behaviours, my GF died and she was assessed as unable to cope alone at home so she went to a residential home. The improvement in her was dramatic. With good care, nutrition, and company she was well, engaged and stimulated and her memory was better than it had been for months.

It could be that living as part of a community with all services available and social activities will be beneficial for MIL in the same way. Placing her a bit out of her comfort zone and encouraging her to socialise could mean she becomes less dependent on you and her DC's.

Also, you would be telling the truth when you tell MIL that you are all doing this for her health and wellbeing, it isn't because you are trying to shut her away somewhere, it is for her safety.

At the risk of sounding callous, it's a long time till Autumn for a deteriorating 80 year old.
I'd focus on her health issues, regardless of how well she is, at that age she'll have some. Does she visit her GP regularly? If she moves, is she going to find a new doc? If not how is she going to travel to appointments.
The driving worries me. I'd follow pp advice and seek help from her GP. Mention the planned move while you're at it.
If she's showing signs of dementia, a move could really exacerbate that. She'll suddenly be somewhere unfamiliar with no one she knows and her routine changed.
Regardless of the fallout, you need to get all the family to discuss it. And really make it clear that you will not be a carer, under any circumstances. But have the same conversation with DH beforehand. And make it clear if he doesn't listen to you and appreciate your situation in this, it will have consequences for your marriage.

I can see this coming at some stage for my IL's but the huge difference is I like them and, as they both had parents with dementia/Alzheimer's, I'm pretty sure they've made provision for their own care so anything they'd need from us would be purely emotional support and being there. Not personal care and accommodation.

I don't really have the power to demand GPs getting involved. I don't know who that is or even where her GP practices. I dealt with FIL toxicity by refusing to deal with or engage with any family shite. Included not answering the phone when I knew they were calling, etc. I didn't, however, demand that DH stop spending any time with them that he wanted. I just refused to participate if I didn't want to. I think they see me as cold and controlling of him. It means I am on the fringes of the family, which is fine with me, but might also explain why it didn't occur to anyone to discuss this move with me. DH has carried the burden of his family alone for 20 years, but this move will be a different kettle of fish altogether.

When DH first told me about it, accidentally, my response was swift and totally unfiltered: pure shock.

I told him it would effectively ruin my life and potentially our marriage. I told him all his assurances were a nonsense because in reality, in an emergency, they'd start telling me these were exceptional circumstances etc, and infer I was being unreasonable etc. That if his job became affected, I'd have to step up to protect our family interests too because he is main breadwinner. And so it would begin.

I pointed out his mum was lonely and isolated because she wouldn't try do anything, and that moving to a village would not make it easier to meet people when she still brings the same personality traits with her. I also told him that if she moved here it would effectively rob me of the last remaining years of my life where I can do things I wanted to do. I'd be managing small children and an elderly person. The area also gets snowed in, so driving is dangerous: I asked him how he'd feel if his mother's absurd driving plus poor transport plus bad conditions meant a child died in a car accident. I also told him if she moved then we'd move too.

I genuinely believe my only hope is if she doesn't move here, because all my threats - which I will stick to - will also have implications for my marriage and my life even if it does effectively keep MIL pressures at arms length.

The plan then became delayed to Autumn after he spoke to SIL and to MIL - which he struggled to do, but I was insistent. He said he thought the mention of the 2 hr round trip to nearest hospital penetrated. But apparently they are both angry with him and have told him he is 'being negative' and not seeing the 'positive aspects'. In the meanwhile, SIL's friend who lives in the village is raving about what am amazing place it is.

My big challenge is the DCs failure to recognise she is getting to a point where she will need help soon. It is insane to move twice at her age.

onit FIL lived well into his 90s. It may resolve itself quickly or it may just slowly slowly get worse over a loooooong time. I don't want to take any chances.

On the dementia (which no one in the family thinks could be an issues except me) - this is an example of something I thought was a bit .

MY DM was diagnosed with breast cancer and had to have a double mastectomy. I told MIL and SIL all about it one day about 5 months ago. All the details, extensive conversation, cups of tea etc.

MIL then asked after her health after the surgery as well, on different subsequent visits. I always gave her full updates.

Then about a month ago we were at SIL's and SIL asked how DM was now. I gave her a further update. MIL was listening and suddenly got outraged that no one had thought to tell her my DM had been ill , and she had no idea at all that my DM had had a mastectomy.

I was gob-smacked!

Is that normal memory lapse in later years, or is that a potential problem?

"I genuinely believe my only hope is if she doesn't move here, because all my threats - which I will stick to - will also have implications for my marriage"

I suspect you may underrate your DH a bit. Obviously, I'm not in your shoes, I don't know him. But faced with the actual choice, you or his DM, I think he'll step up and choose you and his kids. The problem is, he thinks he can defer decision-making or 'just go along with things' for an easy life in the present. And possibly that he can fudge things in the future and that they will 'just be OK'. That's where your firmness comes in. He's use to seeing you as the person who 'gives' and his family as the immovable rock. He needs to be aware that it's the other way around now.

The job thing - again, as I said before, this is a dilemma many working women face of how to balance care and work. It's tough but it can be done. Let your DH deal with it and make the accommodations that are needed with his boss. Don't give him a free pass to use annual leave or take time away from the family.

In an emergency, you do NOT have to step up. It is a choice and it doesn't matter who tells you you're being unreasonable - you have a right not to do it. She has DC and they can arrange out how this works between them. You can use your strategic position on the edge of the family to your great advantage here. Just. Say. No. No. No. No. Over and over again.

It is not your responsibility to sort out her driving, either. If you stop stressing about the things you can't do much about, and focus on shoring up your own boundaries and your assertiveness, this will simplify things a lot.

Practise "I told you three (SIL, SIL and DH) she would need help soon. I hope you can find a carer or split it between you." Say it twice a day, so when needed you can do this. If there is a real emergency (fall etc), call her an ambulance. If not, call SIL and DH.

I think that would be a potential problem, yes, not remembering a fairly important piece of news.

My (other) DGM lived with my DGD who had fairly bad dementia for many years. She always seemed fine when he was alive, but once he died it became apparent she also was suffering. The severity of my DGD's symptoms had masked hers. So it is quite possible that the medical professional who assessed your MIL as having memory function issues was correct. Regardless, 80 is an appropriate age to be thinking of moving into assisted living, not into a 2-storey house in a rural location away from an established support system.

I agree forgetting major news is a possible sign. I found highly intelligent people are able to mask their dementia for a long time. A family member of mine was not diagnosed for ages, she was really astute at covering and making light of her "forgetfulness". She had a high degree of awareness until quite late into the disease so managed to conceal it.

I am going to sound like a right cow but I would be secretly trying to get her driving licence revoked. 80 year olds have slower reactions and shouldn't be driving imo, certainly not without regular assessment and that is before you get into your mil's failing memory. So I would be contacting the dvla or whoever it is that investigates competency to drive. She could kill someone if she is unfit to drive.

If she loses her licence, it will make moving to a more isolated location impractical and therefore it might solve your peoblem before it gets too far.

Failing that, I think you have to have some very blunt conversations with your sil and mil. You have to tell them that dh has a full time job and will not be available for hosp appts etc and that neither will you. If they are making this decision without your consent then they must understand that you will not be stepping in to help out. And you have to mean it. Once again, have the conversation with your h and ask him, in practical terms what does he have planned if his mum has a fall/cannot drive (and that will happen at some point)/is lonely/needs help with housework etc.

But mostly you have to be willing to be tough and mean it when you say you won't be available.

You have my utmost sympathy. If I had been expected to look after my ils it wouldvhave led to divorce! You have nothing to feel guilty about - I would actually be really angry that my h hadn't discussed this with me, knowing the implications for our family life.

I don't think you are BU at all. In fact 20 years ago I could have written your post although my MIL at the time was 66 but was Indian where the culture is the DIL looks after them if they are sick if there are no sons. She had my DH and BIL who lived 200 miles away as did she after we moved from London to Cornwall when our DC were small. As she got older my DH and BIL encouraged her to move closer to either us or BIL. She opted to move to the same town as us albeit in sheltered accommodation which I was fine about as it was suitable for the elderly and had warden control which unfortunately ceased due to funding cuts after a few years. She stayed there for 18 years but the last four or five were dreadful and impacted on mine and DHs life drastically while she suffered with dementia. It ruined her relationship with DH and I took a step back as I was working by then as DC were older and left her care to DH. Eventually we got her into a nursing home close to BIL and she died a year later but it impacted on my DH the worst as he undertook most of her care (with the help of carers and occasionally me or my DC). My BIL realised how bad it was when she moved up to be closer to him. No matter how much you love your parents/PIL it is incredibly difficult when the demands on your time are so unsustainable and you have other calls on your time like DC and work and a little bit of relaxation for yourself plus in yours and my case our own DF and DM.

It is a massive responsibility to have an elderly parent close by and I think your SIL is keen on this happening as she can see which way this is going. Make it clear to DH you are not undertaking her care beyond normal MIL contact time with DC and you should determine that and how much you are prepared to offer. If you work at home stress that you keep certain hours and will not be deviating from that. Maybe get a second phone line? Your SIL and MIL needs to be aware of that either directly by you spelling it out or indirectly by making sure they know your time is accounted for. We ended up by not answering the phone and just letting it take messages as we were being phoned 20-30 times a day often for the same trivial things. Dementia often means the sufferer can no longer make simple decisions and get panicked very quickly. Also I lose count of the number of times the ambulance was called out by the My MIL needed to be made aware the mobiles were only used in emergencies and we set up two or three carers a day to go in but still the phone calls continued (she was housebound by then). She also would not integrate even though we tried to get her to go to daycentres by arranging transport but she only wanted us which was a massive strain on our marriage.

At the age of your MIL and the worrying health issues a double storey house with no back up care is madness. If your SIL's friend lives in the village and is encouraging this why not suggest the friend's phone number is passed on to MIL and I am betting she will soon cease with her "helpful advice".

You can suggest it to your DH, I'm sure he will know who her GP is.

But the bottom line is that if he and his siblings won't work with you to help sort MIL out or include you in any planning you are not obliged to help them or her. It's ludicrous to pretend that your parents aren't getting any older and are still fit and well.

AFAIK anyone is able to report an unsafe driver to the police, anyone could have observed her. If she has not had a fitness to drive assessment they will insist she has one. If she fails and has to stop driving it isn't your fault. They may well insist she has a medical.

If she wasn't moving so close to you I'd just step back altogether and let the DC run the whole moving show. MIL could potentially deteriorate mentally with the stress or have a heart attack or stroke trying to cope with the stairs. She could end up in a care home quicker.

But sadly she is and you have to cope with the effect it is having on your life and your marriage.

As you have mentioned retraining and working (from home), I would make that a priority.
Nope you are NOT available even in the case of emergencies.
Nope, actually you do HAVE to attend xx in town and cant possibly change that (It's a training, no way you can swap or do it later).

Tell yur DH that, as hios plan is that he will do it all, you will carry on with your plans of work/training and won't be available at all for anything else bar the minimum at home. I would start that now, to set things in motion and the habit that he has to cosider your job and training as important than his.

For me there are two reasons.
1- is that you absolutely need a good enough reason not to be available and it has to be spelled very well to your DH. You will NOT to be there to care for her.
2- if he insists and things go wrong, you will be able to support yourself with your job.

Seeing what has happened with my gran, your MIL should move into her 'old age' house now, not in a 'temporary' house with stairs that she will struggle with.
I also suspect that your dsil is in effect stagging a move so that she is doing little of the care and it all falls onto your Dh (and therefore you) because she doesn't want to care for her mum as such.