Unvaccinated children around newborn

[Foldback]

I don't want to clog the other post here but I wondered what peoples thoughts are.

I'm currently pregnant. My closest friend chooses not to vaccinate her children aged 2 and 6 and has done this since pregnancy, both children attend nursery. Although I wouldn't make the same decision I don't want to debate her reasoning or the pros and cons of vaccination, there has been plenty of that on the other thread.

I have tried to research the possible risks but feel I'm stumbling in the dark on google. AIBU to not allow her / her children to have contact with my DS until he is able to receive his immunisations or am I being PFB?

If enough people had your 'morals' smallpox would still be an issue.

Well having had a child die from meningitis, i would have welcomed the vaccine. Sadly it wasn't ready before my dd died but I have paid for dd1 to have it. Really for me a no brainer.

MrsUniverse, my dd almost died as a baby as a result of her vaccines. she spent 3 nights in the ICU and a further week in HDU. She was left with muscle weakness and had phsyiotherapy and occupational therapy for years after. she has mild brain damage that affects her learning. so, i'd say that is pretty catastrophic and life changing, wouldn't you?

Sugar21, I'm sorry about your daughter.

Great, I'm sorry about your daughter, too.

Zzzz, yes, if you want to put it that way. Huge moral issues aren't they?

Surely SideOfFoot's daughter could have the rubella vaccine when she's older if she isn't immune?

I am interested in the comments of people who say that they don't vaccinate their children as they don't see why their child has to have the vaccine when it only benefits the rest of society and not the child.

What about the things the rest of society does to benefit your child?

Do you feel the same when benefits are coming the other way? For example, when comes to the free NHS care that your children enjoy (thanks to the taxpayers in the rest of society doing their bit to benefit everyone) the free prescriptions they collect (thanks to the taxpayers in the rest of society doing their bit to benefit everyone)...

Have you opted out of the national health system, choosing private GP care for your children and paying for private prescriptions for them as you don't feel people should do things to benefit the rest of society?

I am sure you are taxpayers too but it isn't just your tax paying for your children, is it? it's mine too and my child could catch a life threatening illness from your unvaccinated child as he is too young to be vaccinated. Doesn't sound fair to me...

Fourfifthsof I think the things you are speaking about are a little different because the rest of society isn't taking any risk doing all those things - you want someone elses child to have a medical procedure to benefit others - there is risk in that medical procedure but there is no risk in paying tax or free prescriptions or any of the other things you mention.

Statistically, I'm more at risk of accident or injury when travelling to work, or when at work than a child is from being vaccinated.

"Statistically, I'm more at risk of accident or injury when travelling to work, or when at work than a child is from being vaccinated."

And yet you probably still take steps to minimise that risk as much as you can - take care on the stairs, stop if you don't feel well when driving etc.

I actually do vaccinate, but I also acknowledge that there is a risk and weigh that up in my decisions for each vaccine individually. I don't judge others who choose differently as everyone has their own individual circumstances. As parents it's our duty to put our own children first , we are their advocates, and if a person believed the safest thing for them is to not be vaccinated - well, they know their situation better than I do.

bumbleymummy, qyes DD will be made fully aware of all the facts and can decide what is best for herself.

I absolutely agree that as parents it is our duty to put our own children first and that's why this issue bothers me so much.

If a person feels that they are mitigating the risk to their child by not vaccinating, they not only risk their own child suffering the consequences of a preventable illness, they also increase the risk to my child.

This is in addition to removing my right and ability to mitigate the risks for my child and to protect him from preventable disease.

Removing my right to put my child first while expecting this right to be preserved for themselves. Unbelievably selfish.

Fourfifthsof

but if you've vaccinated yourself why do you care about other people's children being vaccinated - how does that increase the risk or do you think secretly that vaccination isn't actually a universal panacea? It's very noble to worry about other people's kids but I'm afraid I don't, except in the most general of ways (eg being unhappy about the effect privatising the education system via forced academies will have on children).

There is a very clear logical argument for vaccination - but it gets too emotive "you are risking my child". Yes and if I vaccinate my child, I am also risking my child. The risk may be small. We've had discussions on here before about illogical fears. But the risk of vaccine damage is not that tiny and it is not illogical to worry about it. We would not have vaccine damage legislation if vaccines were safe for everyone. If you don't vaccinate, you control the risk of your child being vaccine-damaged. Yes you open up the risk of getting the illness - but that's not in your hands anyway - your child may or may not be exposed to it. And if they catch it they may be fine - I had nearly every childhood disease going (except whooping cough and slapped cheek) and was fine. And if they have it badly they may still recover well and have no lasting side-effects. So I can understand why people see the risk of the illness as smaller than the risk of vaccine damage - or maybe have certain vaccinations because they consider the risk larger eg meningitis but not others eg rubella for a boy. Or where they think the vaccine has limited success eg the flu vaccine is not universally effective as they have to get the right strain. I don't think you can judge another person's perception of risk.

The social argument has never convinced me. If my child were the one who was disabled by a vaccination nobody would want to know. You'd have to fight tooth and nail for every bit of help and judgmental mummies would tut when your child misbehaved, refuse to have them over to play, or flick their eyes nervously at a physically disabled child and be relieved it's not theirs but be in no way willing to help.

So what's the logical argument? It's cheaper to vaccinate children than deal with the illnesses and the side effects, having kids clogging up GP's surgeries and hospitals and having kids off school and their parents off work and deal with the few cases of vaccine damage. That's why the state wants you to do it. Simple cost benefit analysis.

My son has had all the routine vaccinations. And I don't disagree that it's a first world problem but it's still a problem.

I wouldn't let her unvaccinated kids near a child of mine. She's irresponsible to say the least.

YANBU. Please keep them away! I had whooping cough once my vaccine wore off, and it was horrific, and you are most infectious when showing very mild symptoms - IMO really not worth the risk, it was terrifying as during some attacks I couldn't breathe for 30 seconds and turned blue.

Tough luck for her, keep them away I say. It comes with making the decision she has.

Different, but my dog doesn't have vaccinations anymore. He reacts to them, comes out in rashes etc and every time they're worse. I keep him away from other dogs that aren't my own unless I know they are vaccinated to protect him. He can't go to classes or kennels, it comes with the territory of not vaccinating him albeit genuinely for health reasons. I don't want him mixing with unvaccinated animals and I would apply the same logic with kids. There were some measles breakouts near me not too long ago, so not U at all.

Boredofusername

I don't care for me, I am a fully vaccinated adult so it is unlikely (although not impossible as we know) that I would catch these diseases. I care for my DC, who is too young to have the full set of vaccinations and is therefore vulnerable.

I care for my own child first and foremost of course - I think everyone does. And I absolutely understand your point about small risks and illogical fears - I think everyone is concerned about any risk to their child, however small it is, and should look into the risks and discuss their concerns with a medical professional if they were unsure.

It is of course terrible for any child and family who are affected by vaccine damage and research to find safer vaccines should be ongoing to ensure that the risk of vaccine damage is reduced and eliminated. The risk of vaccine damage still remains much lower than the risk of contracting the disease.

Coming back to the OP, I wouldn't think twice about keeping my child away from an unvaccinated child until he has had all of his vaccinations. Whichever way we look at it, people who don't vaccinate their children and insist that it is their right to do so to mitigate risk to their child are removing my right and ability to mitigate the risks for my child and to protect him from preventable disease.

I certainly don't think that vaccination is a universal panacea, nor is it 100% effective - nothing is - but I would rather give my child the best chance of avoiding a preventable disease and all of the complications that could arise as the result of it.

'I wonder if people with unvaccinated children would ever take them to countries where the majority of the population are unvaccinated?'

well i can't speak for everyone, but when i decide where i'm going on holiday the vaccination status of the majority of its population doesn't enter my head. so yes, I probably would.

Boopsy If it were only their own child's health that they were endangering then I would agree with you and would also stand up for their right to choose not to vaccinate but it isn't just their child.

They are making a decision for their own child, plus every child too young for vaccinations / unvaccinated for medical reasons who comes into contact with their child.

we all make decisions every single day that could potentially harm someone elses child.
we drive cars
we smoke
we buy cheap clothing made in 3rd world countries
we vote in politicians that drop bombs on children
we chose to send our children to 'the best' schools thereby leaving the bad schools for someone elses child.

Lets not pretend we are all just these selfless, giving people who do things for someone elses good.

You stick a needle in your child for their benefit and also the benefit of other people.
And other people did this for you before your child was old enough to be vaccinated. This is why you do it, because it is a two way thing. Not a one way thing. You have had your benefit now it's time to give back. Like how we pay tax so that the next generation can have an education.
Va ccination is amazing. We should be so proud as a society that we do this.
I see that vaccine damage is a real risk. But my grandparents lost 3 siblings between them to measles. It is very very very simple. Having the vaccine is much much safer than not having the vaccine. Do you want to walk across a road with your eyes shut? How about if its a choice between that and a motorway? It's all about relative risk and the sums have all been done so just take your child down to the doctors before they die from their own parents stupidity

its very very easy to talk about tiny risk and how much safer the vaccine is than the illness, when you've not seen a child damaged by vaccine.