Deranged runners in public spaces....

[SoHereItIs2016]

I am genuinely interested in other people's opinions following a really unpleasant experience when out with my two kids and DP yesterday.

So we have membership to a local, but national attraction. It is a very large outdoor type of space which people generally go to to walk, take kids, picnic, and walk dogs. The layout is in two halves so in one side nog dogs are allowed at all and hence the other half is where you find the dogs.

For info no bikes or scooters etc allowed.

We were about half way round the dog walking half and as we had gone late in the day it was very quiet and we could see in front and behind quite far. We have a 6 month old toy breed puppy ( eg very small) who has no aggressive or overtly bothersome behaviours, we are in the process of completing her off lead training, which is why we went late and only let her off in the parts of the attraction where we had good visibility, not wishing to be in any way a nuisance to others.

So all of a sudden a runner emerged AT HIGH SPEED from the trees, not from main path, as he hurtled towards us both DP and I tried to put her back on lead as well as get the kids out of this mans way as it was fairly obvious he was not going to be sensible and actually slow down/ alter his path so that we could all pass sensibly.

As he approached he the. Started shouting at us to put dog back on lead as by this point she had started trunking over to this fast moving object who was shouting and flapping his hand about. At no point did she jump up, bark, growl or do anything whatsoever other than trundle along next to him. The verbal abuse then escalated to the point she this man was swearing and literally screaming at us all the while still trying to run....please note he was not being impeded in his run in any way.....

Eventually my DP by this time rather peed off with all the shouting and swearing in front of our kids shouted back very firmly to him to STOP running so we could put dog back in lead if this is what he wanted.....man went ballistic carried in verbally abusing me/DP and at one point literally launched himself over out dog due to having distracted himself off his own path.....

Whole,episode was really upsetting and both kids by now in tears, dog shaking like a leaf etc.

Now my AIBU is really why do people undertaking timed/ serious sports use public places where to encounter even the possibility of a hold up is going to cause them immense rage/distress/or where they are so 'in the zone' they lose the ability to be a. Rational human being.

It seems to be happening more and more recently, with runners coming at us en masse. In addition to this last incident we have had a few near misses recently where groups of runners have literally forced my young DC off the road....

I appreciate that we all have the right to use the roads, pavements and public spaces but ultimately they are not sports arenas or running tracks, there are designated places for that which I for example wouldn't go to walk the dog or take the kids to play, realising that the two uses do not mix, and often the person coming at you at speed seems to feel that their right to peruse their sporting goals trumps everyone else's right to quiet enjoyment of the public and open spaces.

And just to make it clear the dog was at no point engaging in aggressive, or disruptive behaviour, she was just trundling along faulty bemused by the shouting flapping jumping man!!!!

oooh also, if you let your little darlings bring their scooters to Central London/Shopping Centre/Tube stations, you annoy me too!

Ghosty you might not shit on the grass when you run but I thought I heard that a UK Olympic marathon runner did!

YABU.

1 - Generally, it's polite to move out of the way of faster or less mobile other users of the public carriageway, be that on roads, footpaths parks,whatever. Eg, I would move over for a pram, or person in a hurry, or on the road I'd move into slow lane to let someone pass.

2 - your suggestion that everyone should know how to deal with (all) dogs does make you a twatish dog owner. People are scared of dogs. Dogs off leads makes people panic. People don't need to learn how to deal with out of control dogs; dogs should be controlled by their owners.

3 - When people are running they're in a more heightened emotional state, your brain can't process things as quickly so you are more likely to get cross if someone's bloody dog runs under your feet and nearly trips you up.

Your dog was 'out of control' because when you called it back it didn't come, it ran after the man. Therefore it wasn't in your control. Your dog was not in your control in a public place.

If your dog ran under my feet and wouldn't come back when you called it I'd think it was going to bite me and I'd probably kick it. So I'd suggest you get control of your dog a damn sight quicker than you did today. Before it gets hurt.

Dog owner and (crap) runner here and sorry, but I think you were more U then he was. He overreacted but how does he know your dog isn't addressive when it approaches him? For what it's worth I've have more problems with aggression from small dogs than large ones, whether because of inherent breed characteristics, defensive aggression, or because owners of large dogs are more likely to be convinced of the necessity of training - I have no idea. I can assure you that a toy breed or small terrier can inflict a very nasty bite, my father had a vicious concave scar in his calf from a tenacious bite from a small dog that attacked him as he stepped out of a showman's caravan carrying baby-me in his arms.

I run along a riverside promenade that is popular with runners, strollers, cyclists and dog walkers. My nice-but-dim pudding of a bulldog has unrelable recall and could just plod after something very interesting so I never let her off the lead. She wouldn't harm a fly but I can't risk her panicking a child squealing excitedly on a scooter, or a cyclist. Previous dogs had good recall, taught in the garden and a puppy training classes and I let them off lead in underpopulated areas, but I don't think I'd have even let them off the lead somewhere with as much human traffic as our promenade.

Unfortunately I'm regularly chased by other people's off-lead dogs whilst running at my glacial speed. If I stopped every time an off-lead dog hoved into view it would be very disruptive, I'm not a natural runner and it takes time to get my rhythm.

It's also easier for owners of off-lead dogs to not see/ turn a blind eye to their dog shitting on the pavement than when they are attached by a 4ft lead. I've yet to see an owner fail to pick up after their leashed dog on the promenade but I've seen off-lead dogs fouling while their owners are oblivious. Until you've had to walk home in winter pushing your daughter's wheelchair one-handed with dog shit on one wheel, in the spokes behind the guard and on the self-propelling hand-rail, while using the other hand to try and swat her hands away from said shit-smeared rail, you probably can't share the joy.

Owning a dog is a joy and a privilege that comes with a responsibility. Unless your dog is trained not to chase, and has reliable recall, it shouldn't be off-lead in an area popular with other recreational users.

What an earth has this got to do with dog mess? This was about a runner shouting at a dog, it's been turned in to a general grievance thread about dogs, which is usually how things go whenever a dog is even vaguely anything to do with a thread on mumsnet.

Some runners are a pain. There is one that runs passed the bus stop outside school screaming 'out of the way I can't break pace' while two thousand kids are trying to school.

He could just cross the road where there is hardly anyone. He knocked one of the year 7a over the other week and I had to pull over and get out (I was queuing for the drop off point) put her in my car and take her in.

Funny how he doesn't do it now the teachers patrol outside the gates.

If this man was scared of dogs or worried this tiny dog would attack him, he could have stayed in the side where you can't take dogs, surely?

peace you must be new to mumsnet? Otherwise you would know that threads do often go off course and discuss things other than the op

No, been here 13 years, so I know that most threads that even vaguely mention dogs end up turning in to a general bashing thread. I was bored enough to advance search last night and see who regularly does it on any thread mentioning a dog. It satisfied me.

In 20yrs of running I've never been chased by a dog. I must be even slower than I thought .

Unbefuckingleivable that the OP can turn a human being into a "fast moving object shooting and flapping his hand about".

Just turn that into a child and see how clever you sound.

I run and have a dog.

You should have had your dog under control.

YABVVU.

I think it's about compromise. I trail run so most people who take their dogs out where I run have them off lead. If I see a dog ahead I tend to slow down and call out so they know I'm there (just "runner coming through on the right please" or similar) as I dont want to scare either the person or the dog. If it's coming towards me, similarly, I just slow down till we pass one another.

I have had a few incidents where I've been jumped on and then I've given the owner both barrels as I think if you have your dog off lead it should not jump up at random people, but generally, I feel the trails are for everyone and with a bit of mutual consideration, it works.

Runners do not help themselves by being "cant break my pace" dickheads though. I've seen them bowling over little kids at kindy kick out time. If you want to do pace work, then choose a better route or use a track. If you want to run on pavements, you have to be considerate of other users.

Yabu and you are using his twattish behaviour to stay in denial about your own. If you carry on thinking it is fine to let your dog do this because he's small then one day someone will kick him away and he might get badly hurt, and all the blaming in the world won't change the fact that you could avoid this happening.

about dogs No, about some dog-owners. Don't blame the dogs. The relevant behaviour is that of the person in charge of the dog.

Here's a responsible dog-owner: You train your dog where there are less distractions, in your garden go to classes or book a slot in a field for walking. Don't let it off the lead until you're confident you can recall. Grew up with a dog and trained mine in my garden before I inflicted its behaviour on others.

So is this one: Owning a dog is a joy and a privilege that comes with a responsibility. Unless your dog is trained not to chase, and has reliable recall, it shouldn't be off-lead in an area popular with other recreational users

You train your dog where there are less distractions So they cannot cope when there are distractions.

in your garden or go to classes Most gardens are too small for effective recall training. You need at least 40ft clearance. Classes are an excellent idea, as an additional training tool, not instead of.

book a slot in a field huh? What now?

Don't let off lead unless you are confident you can recall only possible if you use a long training line. They can be purchased but need to be used in empty spaces not around others. They are a great tool for initial training, but continuation training needs to take place off lead.

Grew up with a dog and trained mine in my garden I grew up with a dog too, and for years told everyone that I'd trained her. Turns out my dad had an awful it to do with it!

Owning a dog is a joy and a privilege and that comes with a responsibility Completely agree. Part of that responsibility is to train them for all eventualities - you cannot do that without putting them in all manner of situations are seeing how they react.

OP has done everything right and both her and the dog will have learned from the experience. She is being condemned for trying to do her best by people who do not understand or care for dogs.

YANBU. He was being a knob. As are several of the contributors to this thread.

YANBU at all. There are definitely some runners who seem to think they are beyond reproach. The man opposite us is like this - I was out walking with DC3 and his 2 little friends a while back, and we were on the footpath which has plenty of room (in the form of a small field) next to it. He came running along at full speed, despite being able to see us, and instead of running around us he shouted MOVE, and ran right through the boys. Another time DH saw him running (again at full speed) towards a woman walking a small dog on a retractable lead on a pavement. Instead of running around her he ran through her and the dog, tripped over the lead and fell, and then proceeded to shout at the poor woman.

I think overall the outcome of this is that if you're in public you have to make compromises.

There are going to be dogs off leads, so slow down, but if you are an owner of a dog you have to try to do your best to get your dog back on the lead. Pick up your dogs dirt too!

However, I've seen far too many joggers who think the road/path/park belongs to them and below at people to get out of the way. However in the same vein I've seen far too dog owners who assume everyone like dogs as much as they do and allow their dogs to jump at people.

If we are going to share public spaces, we have to learn to share and think conscientiously about other users.

I do still have to fight the urge to trip the runners going down the South Bank shouting at people at peak tourist times, that's just showing off

well said Lurked

the only encounter I had with a dog that upset me was the time a lovely old staffy turned to look at me as I went passed and her owner pulled her back sharply and shouted horrible names at her - she was so sweet it still plays on my mind :(

Most people can show common sense and share public space politely - it's the idiots - both on the dog and jog side that let us down

Quite agree lurked

Sounds like your dog was no real bother and the runner was being a total arsehole. Not very nice :(.

The only problem I have with dogs is when they behave like this runner did - i.e. like total arseholes.

Quite often they will run right at my children, barking, bearing their teeth, jumping up.
If a runner behaved like that much of an arsehole I'd take the bugger out. But when dogs do it it's always with the owners walking casually along after with "oh, don't worry, he's just being friendly".

The layout is in two halves so in one side nog dogs are allowed at all and hence the other half is where you find the dogs.

So are dogs even allowed off lead in the 'dogs allowed' side? what would be to stop them running into the 'no dog' area?

I have to say I've never felt threatened or treated rudely by a runner, but I have been barked at and felt very intimidated by dogs on countless occasions

That's a good point, Claudia. Some runners are bloody irritating and up themselves but they annoy rather than actually scare me.

Dogs, particularly those accompanied by owners who don't seem to get nor care that I don't want their dog running up to me, have frequently scared me.

In terms of being bitten - by dogs twice, runners none.

I know the place the op is talking about, it really wouldn't happen that an off lead dog would run into the no dogs bit.

Have you been around the no dogs bit op? It's much smaller than the other half and not all that suitable for running.

I think you were both being unreasonable, obviously he should have swerved around you but you should have scooped up the dog ASAP, as it does sound like it was behaving in a way that non-dog people find threatening (I love dogs by the way).