Deranged runners in public spaces....

[SoHereItIs2016]

I am genuinely interested in other people's opinions following a really unpleasant experience when out with my two kids and DP yesterday.

So we have membership to a local, but national attraction. It is a very large outdoor type of space which people generally go to to walk, take kids, picnic, and walk dogs. The layout is in two halves so in one side nog dogs are allowed at all and hence the other half is where you find the dogs.

For info no bikes or scooters etc allowed.

We were about half way round the dog walking half and as we had gone late in the day it was very quiet and we could see in front and behind quite far. We have a 6 month old toy breed puppy ( eg very small) who has no aggressive or overtly bothersome behaviours, we are in the process of completing her off lead training, which is why we went late and only let her off in the parts of the attraction where we had good visibility, not wishing to be in any way a nuisance to others.

So all of a sudden a runner emerged AT HIGH SPEED from the trees, not from main path, as he hurtled towards us both DP and I tried to put her back on lead as well as get the kids out of this mans way as it was fairly obvious he was not going to be sensible and actually slow down/ alter his path so that we could all pass sensibly.

As he approached he the. Started shouting at us to put dog back on lead as by this point she had started trunking over to this fast moving object who was shouting and flapping his hand about. At no point did she jump up, bark, growl or do anything whatsoever other than trundle along next to him. The verbal abuse then escalated to the point she this man was swearing and literally screaming at us all the while still trying to run....please note he was not being impeded in his run in any way.....

Eventually my DP by this time rather peed off with all the shouting and swearing in front of our kids shouted back very firmly to him to STOP running so we could put dog back in lead if this is what he wanted.....man went ballistic carried in verbally abusing me/DP and at one point literally launched himself over out dog due to having distracted himself off his own path.....

Whole,episode was really upsetting and both kids by now in tears, dog shaking like a leaf etc.

Now my AIBU is really why do people undertaking timed/ serious sports use public places where to encounter even the possibility of a hold up is going to cause them immense rage/distress/or where they are so 'in the zone' they lose the ability to be a. Rational human being.

It seems to be happening more and more recently, with runners coming at us en masse. In addition to this last incident we have had a few near misses recently where groups of runners have literally forced my young DC off the road....

I appreciate that we all have the right to use the roads, pavements and public spaces but ultimately they are not sports arenas or running tracks, there are designated places for that which I for example wouldn't go to walk the dog or take the kids to play, realising that the two uses do not mix, and often the person coming at you at speed seems to feel that their right to peruse their sporting goals trumps everyone else's right to quiet enjoyment of the public and open spaces.

And just to make it clear the dog was at no point engaging in aggressive, or disruptive behaviour, she was just trundling along faulty bemused by the shouting flapping jumping man!!!!

Actually if you are driving you have to stay behind slower moving things like tractors cs yclists and horse riderrs until it is safe to over take, while it is polite for slower moving vehicles to pull over to allow overtaking a fast car can't just blow horn and expect everyone to react and jump on pavement so a fast runner cyclist needs to overtake sensibly, it is reasonable for an adult to walk alongside a small child but there is no need for adult walkers to spread across whole path neither is there any need for a pack of runners or cyclists to run/ cycle across whole path or road expecting everyone to move

Part of that responsibility is to train them for all eventualities - you cannot do that without putting them in all manner of situations are seeing how they react

This is hilarious. Take your untrained dog to a place frequented by runners. Let him off leash. See how he reacts. That's to train him for an unexpected eventuality. The runner who gets bit during this training is collateral damage (and it's the victim's fault, he shouldn't have flapped his arms while running, like a brainless deranged human being)

Also hilarious that pp are saying 'what about humans who bite?' We shouldn't worry about training dogs, because human beings bite too! So, when you're out running you might not get bit by a dog, but a deranged runner might run up to you, and bite you!

Luckily, I'm happy to announce that most dog owners are perfectly sensible people and they do train their lovely dogs. But the twattish dog-owners do come up with some hilarious arguments.

I think people who don't train their dogs are just lazy, and rely on the fact that most people are suckers for puppy-eyes and will not blame the dog even if it mauls them to death. Because it's a dog. And we all love dogs. It's just the owners who are some right idiots sometimes.

It's completely irrelevant to post dog bite statistics on a thread about a runner and a dog who didn't bite. I thought I would post some equally irrelevant ones about humans. Do you get it? No dog bit, no human bit. Both are capable of it.

I think it's fair to say that many, many more people have been bitten by a dog than a human peace. It's not the most persuasive line of argument.

People (including myself) are pointing out that one of the reasons that they're scared of dogs/don't like them running up to them is that they've been bitten (possibly by more than one dog as I have) with absolutely no provocation.

I'd completely understand anyone not wanting humans running about near them if they have had a human randomly run up and bite them.

It's completely irrelevant to post dog bite statistics on a thread about a runner and a dog who didn't bite

It's not irrelevant, as the poster was suggesting that the runner may have been in fear of being bit, and it's not an irrational fear, as dogs do bite. Occasionally. He had no way of knowing whether this particular little dog would or would not bite, and bites hurt even if the dog is little. See this post by another previous poster: I was bitten by a dog today on my run! I saw that it wasn't happy, stopped running but needed to walk past it. The owners where relatively close by but unable to control it. It was growling/hackles raised as soon as it saw me, but despite my having slowed to a walk it jumped up and bit me

Exactly Teacup. 1 adult and 3 children are allowed to walk on a narrow footpath without having to worry about a runner shouting MOVE as he came up at full pelt behind them and continued to run straight through the group.

1 adult and 3 children are allowed to walk on a narrow footpath

So you're taking up the full width of the path. If a walker came up behind you, or was walking towards you, you wouldn't move either?

Very rude.

I'm a runner and the etiquette is very simple. Slower gives way to faster. I give way to almost all runners as I'm very slow. But I expect walkers to give way to me.

By give way, I mean one of them steps behind another so I don't have to go on the road to get past.

It's amazing how many 'abreast' pedestrians can't even contemplate stepping back for the three seconds needed. They actually look confused. Maybe they think I'll fly over their head?

No, MorrisZapp. You are entirely wrong. Faster accommodates slower. The very fact that you are moving at speed means that you are more able to move out of the way, or go round people. Laws of physics means that a slower object - ie a pedestrian is not going to be able to move out of your way fast enough.

And common courtesy should surely dictate that it's both rude and intimidating to run at people in the expectation that they will move out of your way.

It's amazing how many 'abreast' pedestrians can't even contemplate stepping back for the three seconds needed. They actually look confused. Maybe they think I'll fly over their head?

No they just know that they'll melt away if they can't be close (or hold onto) the person next to them.

it's both rude and intimidating to run at people in the expectation that they will move out of your way

Do you think it's the same if it's pedestrians (ie not these terrible nasty runners) each way? Should I be expected to step into a gutter or a hedge because there's a family all holding hands, or a couple engrossed in their bubble, who don't step into single file so we can pass each other?

That is equally rude, I'd have thought.

Well I'm a slow runner so I'll never feel the joy of running at anybody in an intimidating manner :) I'm also a slightly overweight middle aged short arsed female so I hope I don't scare anybody.

I wouldn't dream of running at people. I try to engage their eye contact from a reasonable distance so I can see they've clocked me, and I can gauge how they're going to react.

If they don't engage or move then I either jump into the road if it's safe, or I stop to enable me to step through them. I'm not going to risk my safety or anybody else's for the sake of my jogging hobby.

I only took up running recently though, and all my life I've been aware of the abreasters. They're equally annoying to other pedestrians.

Can't you see we're in love? You'll have to go in the gutter.

I will start by saying I dislike dogs off leads very much. I dislike it because a huge percentage of the time the off lead dog is NOT under control despite what the owner may think. If the dog doesn't come back the INSTANT you call it isn't under control. I accept dogs need training but they need to be trained in open spaces where there are no other people. I don't want your dog coming up to me. I don't want to be snuffed at, licked, jumped up at, barked at or tripped by your dog.

However, I think the runner might just have been an areshole. In his shoes I probably would have been scared I might trip over said dog. I am nervous of dogs so I would have stopped and waited, not looking at the dog and ignoring it, until you had it under control. Mind you I currently run very slowly! Maybe if I ever get to being fast....

But I expect walkers to give way to me.

You expect? Ffs.

Slower does not give way faster X

There are plenty of entitled arseholes in running gear, just as there are entitled arseholes moseying along. Idiots enjoy all pastimes.

If I'm running down a hill and two people are walking abreast towards me, or one person is in the middle of the pavement, yes I do expect them to move over. Often they don't but it's not the end of the world.

Maybe they expect you to go round them. When out in the general public you can't expect anyone to read your mind and act in a way you find acceptable.

Well no, that's why I try to engage eye contact and work out what they're going to do. If I go round them it means going in the road, which I would never expect a fellow pavement user to do.

I've been running for a long time, have had two injuries in the past directly related to dogs. One where a dog on an extendable lead (on a public footpath beside a road, not in a park!) sprinted out to chase a child on a BMX cycling in the opposite direction and the lead tripped me - got a large cut on my elbow which ended up with me needing a tetanus shot from that one in addition to a lot of smaller cuts and bruises, also twisted my ankle when I caught a pothole on the footpath another time trying to avoid someone else's bigger dog off leash. Needless to say, I'm wary of dogs when I'm running even if I do love the little furballs. If I knew there was an area in a local park where they were definitely off leash I would avoid it like the plague.

Runner was a bit unreasonable in this case - if you want to go fast then staying out of the part with dogs is probably a good idea. I do find it a bit obnoxious though when families and groups insist on taking up the whole width of the path though while moving slowly and make it difficult for others to pass regardless of what mode they're using. There's no need for it.

I'm a runner and the etiquette is very simple. Slower gives way to faster

That etiquette only exists in your head!! When I run I expect to move round walkers in the same way you would expect an overtaking car to move round the slower car.
As a runner I am able bodied , I don't expect a walker, who may be a child , elderly or less agile to move out of my way. That would be so rude and entitled, not to mention dangerous!!

They're equally annoying to other pedestrians. Can't you see we're in love? You'll have to go in the gutter.

Sorry I should have said that I don't expect children or the elderly to leap out of my way. I'm talking of seemingly able bodied adults or teenagers walking abreast or in the middle of pavements.

In any park / field scenario I always go around. I'm talking about when one party has to give way due to pavement width.

it's both rude and intimidating to run at people in the expectation that they will move out of your way

It happens when I am walking too. I'm walking in one direction, a group is walking in the other. They fully expect me to walk in the gutter of a busy road with cars coming so that they don't have to go single file. No, they should give way to me, not the other way round. If there is a grass verge or there isn't a car coming I'm happy to walk or run around them, but there should be no expectation of it. And I made the comment about not driving with that attitude because I can't imagine that someone would drive on the wrong side of the road and expect a car coming the other way to stop/swerve (although occasionally people do overtake with that attitude especially when it comes to overtaking cyclists or obstructions on their side, I sometimes wonder if my car has an invisibility cloak).

As for dogs off leads, the vast majority are not under control. I would guess that only around 10% of dogs have absolute recall and they'll be working dogs - sheep dogs, police dogs etc. Your average family pet will do what it wants to do and maybe respond to a command 10 seconds later, which could be too late.

I forgot to say - one thing that really annoys me is the runners who run in the road EVEN THOUGH THERE IS A PAVEMENT (and nobody else on it).

You are not a cyclist. Stay on the pavement!

There's a road with an incline that I regularly run up and then back down.

If I'm slogging my way up, I always pull over to the side to give any downhill runners coming towards me a free run. It is much easier for me to do that. If I'm getting some speed up on my downhill, I would hope the uphill sloggers in my way would pull over a bit too. They don't always but it's just nice etiquette when they do, and I always wave and smile to acknowledge as I would for a car driver who let me out.