Deranged runners in public spaces....

[SoHereItIs2016]

I am genuinely interested in other people's opinions following a really unpleasant experience when out with my two kids and DP yesterday.

So we have membership to a local, but national attraction. It is a very large outdoor type of space which people generally go to to walk, take kids, picnic, and walk dogs. The layout is in two halves so in one side nog dogs are allowed at all and hence the other half is where you find the dogs.

For info no bikes or scooters etc allowed.

We were about half way round the dog walking half and as we had gone late in the day it was very quiet and we could see in front and behind quite far. We have a 6 month old toy breed puppy ( eg very small) who has no aggressive or overtly bothersome behaviours, we are in the process of completing her off lead training, which is why we went late and only let her off in the parts of the attraction where we had good visibility, not wishing to be in any way a nuisance to others.

So all of a sudden a runner emerged AT HIGH SPEED from the trees, not from main path, as he hurtled towards us both DP and I tried to put her back on lead as well as get the kids out of this mans way as it was fairly obvious he was not going to be sensible and actually slow down/ alter his path so that we could all pass sensibly.

As he approached he the. Started shouting at us to put dog back on lead as by this point she had started trunking over to this fast moving object who was shouting and flapping his hand about. At no point did she jump up, bark, growl or do anything whatsoever other than trundle along next to him. The verbal abuse then escalated to the point she this man was swearing and literally screaming at us all the while still trying to run....please note he was not being impeded in his run in any way.....

Eventually my DP by this time rather peed off with all the shouting and swearing in front of our kids shouted back very firmly to him to STOP running so we could put dog back in lead if this is what he wanted.....man went ballistic carried in verbally abusing me/DP and at one point literally launched himself over out dog due to having distracted himself off his own path.....

Whole,episode was really upsetting and both kids by now in tears, dog shaking like a leaf etc.

Now my AIBU is really why do people undertaking timed/ serious sports use public places where to encounter even the possibility of a hold up is going to cause them immense rage/distress/or where they are so 'in the zone' they lose the ability to be a. Rational human being.

It seems to be happening more and more recently, with runners coming at us en masse. In addition to this last incident we have had a few near misses recently where groups of runners have literally forced my young DC off the road....

I appreciate that we all have the right to use the roads, pavements and public spaces but ultimately they are not sports arenas or running tracks, there are designated places for that which I for example wouldn't go to walk the dog or take the kids to play, realising that the two uses do not mix, and often the person coming at you at speed seems to feel that their right to peruse their sporting goals trumps everyone else's right to quiet enjoyment of the public and open spaces.

And just to make it clear the dog was at no point engaging in aggressive, or disruptive behaviour, she was just trundling along faulty bemused by the shouting flapping jumping man!!!!

Let's have a look at the OP again.

*I tried to put her back on lead as well as get the kids out of this mans way as it was fairly obvious he was not going to be sensible and actually slow down/ alter his path so that we could all pass sensibly.

As he approached he then started shouting at us to put dog back on lead as by this point she had started trunking over to this fast moving object who was shouting and flapping his hand about*

You saw a fast moving runner so tried to put the dog on the lead. You were unable to and the dog started moving towards him. He saw you fail to get the dog on the lead, concluded you were not in control of it and got rather overly aggressive. Like I said, fault on both sides.

Damn bold fail.

mum....

The point was regarding running, which many GPs now discuss as being very bad for skeletal damage the more that you do it/the harder you go. Lots of folk in their 40s and 50s needing hip replacements and knee surgery due to running.

The point being that the zealous running lobby are actually damaging themselves, there are plenty other forms of exercise. I didn't pass comment on anything else.

But as you say, I'll raise my glass to you, and open another bag of doritos..

Mum I don't in actual fact dislike runners, my AIBU was about one in particular. Most people whoever they maybe or whatever they may eh doing are normal reasonable sensible types. Sadly he wasn't.

Ps I think running is good exercise, and a God way to keep fit, however it really can do damage if taken too far. I have sent us fist hand, I know two peop,echo have conduction problems due to enlargement of the heart and many more who have worn out knees etc. not saying it's not good overall tho.

I recall my dog if we're out and I spot a cyclist or other possible distraction heading towards us. I do it not because she will chase or jump, she doesn't. I do it because she has no sense and is likely to amble across their path causing damage to both them and her. Her recall is good. She comes, sits, and stays until I've given her the command to move. She's not on a lead because I can trust her to come back.
But, it takes her a second or two to get back to me. If cyclists don't slow down even a fraction, they may reach us before she reaches me and then all I can do is hold my breath that she doesn't get confused by the bike heading towards her and decide to stop, or that the cyclist doesn't try to come between her and me as she makes her way back to me. Both have happened, so far we've been lucky. One time a cyclist yelled at me to have my bloody dog under control. She was, she was heading back to me and I would have put her into a sit but you didn't bloody give me time. Shoot along a path well known for dog walkers and you might meet some dogs so slow the fuck down. (He did speed round a corner and nearly flatten the dog who was about 10m behind me. He was just lucky it wasn't my DD - I'd have been a lot less polite than I was if it'd been her he nearly ran over).

Rant over. I've never had a problem with joggers!

Oh oyster for fucks sake just bugger off and stop forensically examining every bloody post!!!! Like I've fucking said Umpteen times the dog was minding her own business til he started behaving like a lunatic!!!!! How much plainer can I be!! Now go and stalk someone else's thread.

He should do his wee hobby on a running machine if he can't behave himself.

Or dogs should be on leads in public places if they've got no recall. See how easy it is?

Or, here's a thought, people could input be considerate of others who are using the space rather than thinking that they own it.

In this case, the OP didn't shout and swear at the runner and say she wasn't going to do anything about her dog because it was a dog space. However, the runner didn't slow down at all whilst she was trying to get the dog on the lead and move her whole family out of his way and just got abusive when, unsurprisingly, it all went pear shaped.

So, on one hand we have the OP apparently trying to accommodate the runner by moving out of the way and trying to get the dog on a lead and on the other we have a runner ploughing on and being abusive.

fwiw, my dog is shit at recall and thus always on lead when out and about, especially as he is also a jumper. I always feel him in on the extending lead when other people are approaching and I would expect consideration from them too. I imagine that some people here would still think it's my fault if a runner who couldn't be arsed to slow down to give me chance to pull him in close got abusive.

OP your dog was out of control.That is what caused the incident.
You really think that a dog bounding up to a runner is doing nothing wrong?I needed hospital treatment after being bitten by a puppy while out running.It sounds as though the guy had a fear of dogs, maybe he has been bitten too?
Ithink your sentence
Swearing and screaming abuse at a family who have not harmed or affected you in any way, other than maybe to make you feel anxious ( perhaps if he had a fear of dogs)
shows you in your true colours.It's ok for you to scare the man , but not ok for him to scare your kids
You need to keep the fucking mutt on a lead until you can control it.Idiot!

Your poor dog! Hope she is ok now.

Stupid man.

This runner hardly came at you 'en masse' did he, OP? And from your description the whole event sounds like it would've taken a good 30-40 seconds at least to unfold, yet you say he was running 'at speed'. As a pretty slow runner myself, I know a lot of runners who run 'at speed' who would've run past you and the dog in just a few seconds. Something doesn't quite add up here. I'm not saying it didn't happen but it sounds like there's been a bit of embellishment in the OP. As another poster said, I'd love to hear his side of the story.

That aside, he has every right to run in a public place, especially at a time when it was late and very quiet (your words) and he most likely didn't expect to see a family with young kids out training their puppy. Most runners aren't rude, sweary or aggressive to other public space users, so please don't judge us all by the behaviour of one.

My dancer, please clarify in what way my mutt was out of control?

OP "Dogs, like humans, will be attracted to loud noises, especially aggressive tones, and movement. If peop,em are unaware of this then I feel it is a sorry state of affairs!"

wow. this and some of your subsequent posts..I was on your side but now I wonder.

for the record I have never seen a dog attracted to someone shouting generally - shouting at it? and I remember my mum breaking up the neighbours dogs fighting - she shouted at them while doing it but it still worked.

anyway, you sound a tad hysterical now OP.

so this isn't the thread to mention a runner doing marathon practise in my town park today who actually RAN a clearly disabled walker off the path and (into the mud where she got stuck and had to be helped out) then yelled at her for being in the way?

because of course, if people are jogging on public highways, they should move right?

I'll make sure i tell her and her daughter who had to help her out of the mud that!

He saw you fail to get the dog on the lead, concluded you were not in control of it and got rather overly aggressive.

If we are writing stories, how about "He was so wrapped up in his personal running world where he is king of everything that he got abusive when something small and yappy happened to be in the same area rather than slowing down in a considerate manner".

Like I said, the dog is a red herring really. By the sound of it, he would have behaved the same had it been a toddler.

Anyway, there is no point trying to have any kind of discussion that involves dogs on MN as there are Lovers and Haters and never the twain shall meet.

I am a runner, I run through parks, I dislike dogs (sue me!)

That guy was a pillock. An absolute pillock.

I ran through a sunny park today and nearly disintegrated my knee caps avoiding kids on bikes, toddlers running after squirrels, dogs and various other hazards but that's my responsibility.

(Although the gormless eejit who decided to just look at me from the side of the path while his son performed a 360 on his bike across the rest of it did get a slightly evil look)

OP your dog was out of control.That is what caused the incident.

Not the arrogant arse of a runner who thought he owned the space and kept on running at them?

You really think that a dog bounding up to a runner is doing nothing wrong?

You really think a runner bounding up to a family with a dog is doing nothing wrong?

There are behavioural training classes for dogs and their owners. Shame there are none for runners.

Softly I didn't say he was coming at me 'enmasse' what I did say was he emerged running AT SPEED eg think sprinting on a racetrack speed towards us. To be honest having read some of the 'anti dog' responses on this thread I have realised that the reason he started carrying on was most likely because he was hell bent on not slowing down, saw the dog and pre empty sly started having a go to try to ensure there was no chance of having to run around/ divert. Ergo my comments about people being 'in the zone' and being unable to maintain sensible behaviour when working on personal targets ( who will be in the minority I'm sure). HE was the one unable to share the space not us HE was the aggressor. Sad fact is he probably ruined his own run yesterday as well and all for what!?

You're rather aggressive for someone who is genuinely interested in other people's opinions.

TBF, I'll make my point clearer. If you run in public, but can't slow down for a dog off the lead, for a toddler on the path, for a group with an elderly person etc. Don't run in public.

You are not competing, your run doesn't take precedent over the need for a dog to have a run off the lead either.

Some of the posts towards the OP here are absolutely shocking, still yet confirming my bias that anyone that runs in public and can't behave in a civic way should fuck off to the other side of fuck off and then fuck off some more.

I've told this story on here before but the most entitled twattish behaviour I've come across was a cyclist who roared 'fuck off' to a dog at the top of her voice in front of a promenade full of children and families. She was going at high speed along a designated cycle lane but on a busy beach promenade with a multitude of potential hazards - scooters, small kids, wheelchairs etc.
Dog flies off the beach and she has to swerve to avoid while travelling at the speed of sound hence the 'FUCK OFF'.
My immediate thoughts weren't that cyclists are arseholes although I'll make an exception for the aggresive ones with the helmet cams but just that she was clearly an utter fanny (to coin a good Scottish phrase). I resisted the urge to shout 'Aye right, Sir Chris Hoy'.

Oyster it has been heartening to find that most people who have replied runners and non runners feel that this mans behaviour was unacceptable. Obviously you feel differently and are seeking to demonstrate this.

I am genuinely interested in others opinions, as I find behaviour like this very difficult to understand. Having posted this thread I now understand it much better. So it's all good 😁

So someone dared to be running in public, with a sweatshirt they were carrying which happened to be flapping and you did not have good enough control of your dog to call them back?

And you think anyone in that situation is going to stop when the said owner who does not have control of their dog shouts at them? Have you ever been chased by a dog? Why on earth would he have stopped?

You love your dog and that is blinding you to the fact that you made a mistake taking it off the lead where you did. The runner felt intimidated by your dog as so you committed an offence.

The dangerous dog act says (from the RCPCA website)-

Whether you own a large breed dog or a tiny one and however placid and friendly your dog is, the Dangerous Dogs Act applies to you. It also applies to me (I own a tiny chihuahua cross) and all other dog owners in England and Wales. Under the Act, it’s illegal for a dog to be ‘out of control’ or to bite or attack someone. The legislation also makes it an offence if a person is worried or afraid (the term is ‘reasonable apprehension’) that a dog may bite them. So ensure that your dog is kept under control at all times and in all places.

It doesn't matter what you think, it matters what the people your dog is chasing think.

Dog owners like you are why my children are terrified of dogs

Oyster, have you ever heard of the expression "death of a thousand papercuts"?
Or read a post on here where an abusive man goads and goads and goads his wife until she explodes, then counters with "oh my God, you are so abusive, you're mad, you're violent"?

That's you that is (with apologies to the Mary Whitehouse Experience)