To ask that people consider giving up leather?

[Breadandwine]

I’ve been a vegan for 13 years. My concerns are animal welfare and global warming, plus I feel it's good for my health.

With regard to animal welfare, I have issues with every aspect of animal husbandry - but I have to be honest, until now, I haven’t given much thought to leather. I avoid it, certainly - it took several years of delicate negotiations before I persuaded my wife to accept a faux leather suite instead of the leather one she wanted - but I’ve always thought leather to be a by-product of the dairy industry.

Not so. An article by Lucy Siegle in this morning’s Observer Magazine brought me up short.

Leather production seems to be worse than other forms of animal cruelty in that humans are suffering too:

"Finally the animals are skinned (in front of each other) in the back streets of Dhaka. The skins are processed in makeshift tanneries with workers, including children, knee deep in toxic chemicals."

"cote You do know that calcium isn't only found in dairy products, right? ;)"

Yes, I do. So does DD's paediatrician, as you might imagine. We also know of something called bioavailability, which means that 30-35% of the calcium in milk is absorbed by the body but this figure is only 5% for spinach, for example.

How much spinach or kale do you think I am likely to get into DD on any given day? Thankfully, she loves plain yoghurt and all types of cheese so I don't have to find out.

Bloody vegans. Bugger off and do something noble for your fellow human beings.

I can never understand everyones fascination with leather and meat for that matter.

I was brought up being served meat everyday and was ill everyday. Ended up with stomach ulcers at the age of 12. Finally gave up meat when I left home at 17 and have never had any stomach problems since. I went from eating meat for my tea one night and spending hours after like I did every night doubled up in pain on my bed to eating a veggie chilli and going out for the night. That veggie chilli was a revelation.
As for leather I have recently bought a new sofa and also went car shopping. The sofa I got is cloth and very very comfortable, something that was severly lacking in the leather ones I sat on, never even considered buying a plastic one. As for virtually all cars having leather interiors you can keep them. Never sat in such totally uncomfortable and seats. Finally bought a Mercedes as they appeared to be the only company who didn't offer a leather interior as standard.
Vegan dd and ds brought up vegetarian. neither of them has had any prescription drugs from the doctors so have never had to think about what is in the drugs. Never had any jabs either.
Even the menopause was a breeze.

I don't own a handbag, plastic or leather shoes, or a coat of any description. I am tea total and never wear make up. We also don't take vitamin supplements.

I agree with you Breadandwine but I just think for ones own comfort don't buy leather products. Cloth shoes, cloth sofas and cloth seats in cars are so much more comfortable and last for just as long.
Currently still wearing a pair of trainers I bought 16 years ago.

Olivetsmum
Loved your post, made me chuckle

*Oliversmum.....sorry typo in original comment

That's a great story, Oliversmum! And good for you!

I've never taken supplements either - although I do use B12 fortified nooch, and Marmite, and I have ground flaxseeds every day.

I wrote (and lost) a long post on issues raised on this thread, earlier. I'll have to see if I can't rewrite it - but it'll have to be tomorrow now.

I'll have a quick look on #veganfoodchat on Twitter before bed - it's an hour of just vegan-friendly chat, if anyone's interested.

I agree with NellyWilson'sWhiteHair. Very few of us are perfect but surely anything we do is a step in the right direction.

Yes OP I would consider it. Sorry you got a load of the dregs of Mumsnet trying to be clever/funny in their replies. These threads bring out the worst of people on here.

I'm sure there must be some vegans who are not insufferable, preachy, sanctimonious, self-righteous tossers, but I have never met one.

So no, I won't be giving up leather, or eating delicious bits of dead animals.

CoteDazur

I'm not saying you're either wrong or right regarding the calcium issue, but you do realise, don't you, that not all Paediatricians or dietitians will hold the same viewpoint?! You could easily have spoken to one who advocated the opposite viewpoint.

I love leather and meat, so it will take more than a guilt trip on an internet forum to make me consider giving either of them up.

Thanks, honey. The supportive posters more than made up for the others who found themselves unable to post a reasoned response.

You gotta feel sorry for some of them!

Oh, I found my lost post:

Thanks, Nell, that's a very good post!

Surely basic ethical living is going without a little, where you can? Less meat, less dairy, less travel, fewer processed goods, less consumption generally, fewer children. Different sacrifices are easier and harder for different people. Nobody is trying to win a bloody prize.

That's what I was trying to say when I said we all do what we can - but you've said it much better!

I'm glad I started this thread, I've learned a lot from pp on here - especially the Badger tip, Contessa!

The Co-op are also very good for vegan wine - it's won a few prizes in the past, I believe.

I'm quite proud of that photo, Cote. Not bad for a 76yr-old (as I was then) vegan, is it?

About calcium - where do you think cows get it from? From eating grass and other veg. OK, I believe some of it is given as a supplement, possibly. But where do you think our closest living relatives (chimpanzees and all the other primates) get it from. Being plant-eaters, they certainly don't get it from drinking cows milk!

betsy - no yoni for me, I'm afraid. (I'll have to google it!)

YABU. Veganism is not a sustainable way of life. Much of our farmland can only support grass, not any other crops. We cannot eat grass but cows and sheep can.

Not all leather is imported.

Yanbu. I hate how as soon as someone reveals that they are a vegan loads of people pile in accusing them of being sanctimonious and interrogating them, it is totally unneccessary and rude.

You are not U.
Its horrendous.
Let everyone who wants a leather couch kill their own cows.

And I'm not afraid to tell anyone that chooses to buy a leather settee or couch....you are disgusting.
Totally prepared for the mn clan to gather up and giggle together. Tossers.

Mel I know where the meat I eat comes from and how it gets there. My Grandma had farm animals and as a result we knew how the chicken became soup, the rabbit rabbit stew and the pig sausages. If it taught me anything it was respect to what I eat.

I find it very depressing that the majority of posters have obviously not read the link but are quick to ridicule the original post. Do you really have no compassion for the - needless! - suffering of animals? I'm not debating the right to kill animals, I am talking about horrific, unnecessary torture.

I'm vegetarian, not vegan, but in the future will look hard at more humane alternatives to leather products.

It's easier to ethical if you can afford umpteen pairs of handcrafted Italian shoes at over a grand a pop, and various Mulberry bags like Betsy,

Not a chance. I will only have sofas and car interiors if they're leather. No way will I be switching to anything else.

Op people are going to be rude, defensive and ignorant when confronted with this. They always are sadly.
Not wearing leather doesn't mean wearing plastic. There are many excellent hard wearing plant leathers such as cork leather which are breathable and strong.
I don't use leather. There's no reason to. It's NOT a byproduct of the meat industry.

Bread there is also a great resource called Barnivore where you can check if a wide variety of wines and beers are vegan/veggie friendly. Very handy!

Oliversmum - you 'don't own a coat of any description'?

Wow. I thought I was fairly hardy but you definitely win!

And I love the claim that Mercedes are the only car without leather seats. Such bollocks.

Op - yanbu to ask. I will look into ethically sourced leather or alternatives next time I'm considering buying a leather product.

I would love to be vegan, and see it as a weakness that I'm not. I managed 4 months last year during and after Veganuary. The problem for me is that if I cook vegetarian I have the whole family with me, 4 people not eating meat. If I move to vegan I have to start cooking different things as DH is Coeliac and most of teh vegan meat subs contain gluten, and then he says he might as well eat meat if I've got to cook two lots. I do consider vegan much more healthy and try to keep dairy to the minimum.

"Op people are going to be rude, defensive and ignorant when confronted with this. They always are sadly.
Not wearing leather doesn't mean wearing plastic.""

But for OP it did mean buying a plastic sofa.

There are many strands to ethical purchasing, and I agree with the PP about confusing labelling of origin. But I remain surprised that there are still people who do not know that animal welfare standards vary depending on where the animal is slaughtered, so yes I suppose I'd agree about display of ignorance.